Posted on Oct 29, 2016
Fitness is great, and by all means am I not saying get rid of it, but isn't there more to being a soldier than just PT and weapons?
8.45K
22
30
7
7
0
Responses: 23
There is much more to a stellar Soldier than PT and weapons . You're going to be hard pressed to find a senior NCO whow will look at this objectively . Take the Cyber Defenders and think about the type of people who are hackers and into computerscience . It's not the jock who is banging out 345s on APFT . It's the joker who plays Wold of War craft in thebarracks from ffinancial formation on Friday to PT MMonday morning. Are we really going to risk the defence of our network because someone isn't good at PT . Different MOS require different levels of fitness . With the advancement of technology we have to adjust the standards of fitness if we truly want the best and the brightest serving. If not they will keep working group for Google and we will get the pt stud who learns about computers during AIT thought at an 8th grade level .
(5)
(0)
SSG Ray Petersen
1SG, I love the response, as you said we have to ADJUST the standards of fitness. I am not a cyber defender myself but as you said those guys are just as important now more than ever. The Army is an ever evolving beast, changing year after year. We need to stop being so hard pressed by old standards (such as the height and weight standard) and change them accordingly. This is something I'm striving to do, and I know that when I make it up top I can have a more direct affect on those changes.
(0)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
PO2 William Allen Crowder - no, Manning was an intel analyst, not a cyber warrior.
(1)
(0)
Suspended Profile
It's not even about cyber warfare, necessarily (though more on that in a second).
Logistics is headed back towards the DISCOM model, albeit leaner and more agile, with the need for advanced capabilities on even the parts of junior enlisted in terms of forecasting calculations. The PT stud is irrelevant even in those shops if he can't adequately use systems or his brain to calculate consumption rates and needs for LOGPAC deliveries. He still needs to look and present as a soldier, certainly, but his weapon system is going to need to be his brain, and in many instances with enlisted promotions, the capable can end up falling behind the PT stud in lists.
With regards to cyber, there's a strong budgetary argument to folding cyber defense (and cyber war) within the DoD, as well as some practical, as well as Constitutional consideration.
One, destabilizing attacks on infrastructure have traditionally been considered acts of war. Just because it can be accomplished digitally doesn't change that this ends up being a defense priority the same as physical attacks, simply because the digital attack can cause physical destruction or disruption.
Two, our offensive capability, because these attacks can be considered acts of war by foreign states, we need to consider that in the future, our checks and balances will demand that we engage some of these capabilities only in a declared state of war, as opposed to clandestine operations. Those capabilities need to be owned by the DoD, subsequently.
Third, not all electronic warfare takes place off the battlefield. Our digital technology can be countered with homebrewed, Raspberry Pi devices. The enemy is using iPad apps to range mortar and light artillery. We need the capability in theater to wage and defend against electronic warfare.
And honestly, the civilian market (my civilian career is programming) is so starved for talent that you can graduate college and command close to 6 figures. Patriotism isn't enough to make the military a competitive choice in order to attract the skill set we need. Just look at the instruction and development model for our Java-based BFT derivatives like JCR Log. Most the instructors are prior military, often admittedly daft, and somewhere, buried deep with a contractor, is an overpaid programmer, simply because no one knows better.
Honestly, I don't think the PT standards are going to make much of a difference in attracting and retaining IT talent. It's one of the few fields where you can reasonably expect to be able to pay student loans for even the most expensive private college program. But force-wide, and I say this having transitioned after 20 years an infantryman to logistics, we need to consider the possibility that trigger pullers should perhaps be the only ones with promotions buttressed by PT capabilities.
Logistics is headed back towards the DISCOM model, albeit leaner and more agile, with the need for advanced capabilities on even the parts of junior enlisted in terms of forecasting calculations. The PT stud is irrelevant even in those shops if he can't adequately use systems or his brain to calculate consumption rates and needs for LOGPAC deliveries. He still needs to look and present as a soldier, certainly, but his weapon system is going to need to be his brain, and in many instances with enlisted promotions, the capable can end up falling behind the PT stud in lists.
With regards to cyber, there's a strong budgetary argument to folding cyber defense (and cyber war) within the DoD, as well as some practical, as well as Constitutional consideration.
One, destabilizing attacks on infrastructure have traditionally been considered acts of war. Just because it can be accomplished digitally doesn't change that this ends up being a defense priority the same as physical attacks, simply because the digital attack can cause physical destruction or disruption.
Two, our offensive capability, because these attacks can be considered acts of war by foreign states, we need to consider that in the future, our checks and balances will demand that we engage some of these capabilities only in a declared state of war, as opposed to clandestine operations. Those capabilities need to be owned by the DoD, subsequently.
Third, not all electronic warfare takes place off the battlefield. Our digital technology can be countered with homebrewed, Raspberry Pi devices. The enemy is using iPad apps to range mortar and light artillery. We need the capability in theater to wage and defend against electronic warfare.
And honestly, the civilian market (my civilian career is programming) is so starved for talent that you can graduate college and command close to 6 figures. Patriotism isn't enough to make the military a competitive choice in order to attract the skill set we need. Just look at the instruction and development model for our Java-based BFT derivatives like JCR Log. Most the instructors are prior military, often admittedly daft, and somewhere, buried deep with a contractor, is an overpaid programmer, simply because no one knows better.
Honestly, I don't think the PT standards are going to make much of a difference in attracting and retaining IT talent. It's one of the few fields where you can reasonably expect to be able to pay student loans for even the most expensive private college program. But force-wide, and I say this having transitioned after 20 years an infantryman to logistics, we need to consider the possibility that trigger pullers should perhaps be the only ones with promotions buttressed by PT capabilities.
Depends on how you look at things. Physical fitness done right improves discipline, mental and emotional health, and your ability to do anything overall. Proper weapon handling can improve your ability to understand the power and responsibility of having a direct say in whether someone lives to see the next day.
Why are you asking this question? Something foul going on in your unit?
Why are you asking this question? Something foul going on in your unit?
(2)
(0)
SPC Erich Guenther
I think the other reason behind physical fitness is you heal quicker with less complications if you get wounded.
(1)
(0)
SSG Ray Petersen
Nothing foul going on in my unit, just asking out of curiousness as someone who is looking to become a leader and looking to go to the dark side (yes I am putting in an OCS packet) I want to try to change the Army for the better in any way that is possible. I am noticing the Army is pushing a lot of people to be "Beasts" at PT. I firmly understand that fitness is important, but that is all units seem to make it about anymore.
Say a unit has a 270 PT average and someone doesn't meet that standard they are chastised, looked down on and forced to push themselves harder to meet that standard.
I know people who can do push ups and sit-ups all day until the cows come home, but can barely do anything when it comes to trying to carry a casualty in full kit, and I know people who have a 220 PT average but can carry casualty after casualty in full kit and more.
Say a unit has a 270 PT average and someone doesn't meet that standard they are chastised, looked down on and forced to push themselves harder to meet that standard.
I know people who can do push ups and sit-ups all day until the cows come home, but can barely do anything when it comes to trying to carry a casualty in full kit, and I know people who have a 220 PT average but can carry casualty after casualty in full kit and more.
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
SPC Erich Guenther has a good point. Body fat and weak immune systems don't heal fast or well.
SSG Ray Petersen - APFT scores and fitness are not one in the same. Units that have that glooming "270 or 'you suck'" mindset are likely toxic and doing very little to help Soldiers achieve that standard during PRT to enhance morale.
SSG Ray Petersen - APFT scores and fitness are not one in the same. Units that have that glooming "270 or 'you suck'" mindset are likely toxic and doing very little to help Soldiers achieve that standard during PRT to enhance morale.
(3)
(0)
Fire and Maneuver , Land Navigation Movement to contact...
Operations Plans /Orders
Preparation Preparation Preparation
Practice Makes Perfect...
The more sweat in Training the less Blood in Combat...
Study and Knowledge of your enemy Know Him as well as you know your self...( Sun Tsu )
Operations Plans /Orders
Preparation Preparation Preparation
Practice Makes Perfect...
The more sweat in Training the less Blood in Combat...
Study and Knowledge of your enemy Know Him as well as you know your self...( Sun Tsu )
(1)
(0)
Read This Next