Posted on Jul 11, 2014
Force those in AC that are forced out to go RC? Possible or not?
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If they can force RC Soldiers to go active for mobilizations both stateside and abroad for long periods of time or transfer from RC to AC and adjust their contracts can they force AC to go RC to finish their contracts? If yes why are they not doing it? If no why not?
Posted in these groups: 
Reserves
Downsizing
Reserves Downsizing
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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Siir, AC is 'forced' (your words) back into RC if they have not fulfilled their Military Service Obligation (currently 8 years). The are NOT, however, required to join a TPU (Troop Program Unit, aka, drilling units of the reserve components). Should they not elect to join a TPU, they are placed in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) and subject to recall for the remainder of their MSO (still a RC component, and they are PLACED (Transferred) there; it's part of their initial contract). The only exception to this would be if a member is discharged for a reason where it would be improper to be placed into the IRR (and wouldn't be eligible to transfer into a TPU) such as some physical disability separations and some administrative separations.
This is all outlined in the initial entry contract.. the one everyone said they read, but no one really did! LOL!
After their initial Military Service Obligation is over, there is no longer a contractual or statutory obligation by the individual to serve in ANY capacity, AC or RC. If they are being separated, it is a discharge, not a transfer. I believe that all those being forced out in this current wave all have over 8 years.
This is all outlined in the initial entry contract.. the one everyone said they read, but no one really did! LOL!
After their initial Military Service Obligation is over, there is no longer a contractual or statutory obligation by the individual to serve in ANY capacity, AC or RC. If they are being separated, it is a discharge, not a transfer. I believe that all those being forced out in this current wave all have over 8 years.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
MSG Wade Huffman
Well said! Exactly what I was getting ready to type when I saw this thread.
The only thing I would add is that I would keep it the same and NOT add a TPU unit membership requirement. There are many reasons for this. The top few are:
1. This Soldier is not "trying to get over" by getting RIF'ed.
2. This Soldier is now needing to compete in the civilian marketplace. As mentioned in many threads, this can be new and difficult enough on its own. Reserve duty isn't going to pay the bills. It darn sure shouldn't be force when it may well interfere with it.
3. If the Soldier was RIF'ed, the last thing I want is a pissed of guy who was "kicked out of the Army" being "forced to be in the reserves." This is going to be yet another guy with a bad attitude/chip on their shoulder, doing the bare minimum, taking up a slot, and spreading discontent. Or, if I'm LUCKY, just being a ghost that I spend 2+ years getting off my books.
Now, I am all for making sure that Soldiers leaving the AC - not under a cloud - be made AWARE of RC opportunities and being ENCOURAGED to consider joining. We could definitely use quality Soldiers to fill our ranks.
Separately, I think I'm the only person I know who read my ROTC contract before signing it....
Well said! Exactly what I was getting ready to type when I saw this thread.
The only thing I would add is that I would keep it the same and NOT add a TPU unit membership requirement. There are many reasons for this. The top few are:
1. This Soldier is not "trying to get over" by getting RIF'ed.
2. This Soldier is now needing to compete in the civilian marketplace. As mentioned in many threads, this can be new and difficult enough on its own. Reserve duty isn't going to pay the bills. It darn sure shouldn't be force when it may well interfere with it.
3. If the Soldier was RIF'ed, the last thing I want is a pissed of guy who was "kicked out of the Army" being "forced to be in the reserves." This is going to be yet another guy with a bad attitude/chip on their shoulder, doing the bare minimum, taking up a slot, and spreading discontent. Or, if I'm LUCKY, just being a ghost that I spend 2+ years getting off my books.
Now, I am all for making sure that Soldiers leaving the AC - not under a cloud - be made AWARE of RC opportunities and being ENCOURAGED to consider joining. We could definitely use quality Soldiers to fill our ranks.
Separately, I think I'm the only person I know who read my ROTC contract before signing it....
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CPT (Join to see)
I was typing while you were typing, sir. The thing people are missing is that we are talking about CPTs and MAJs here. There are not positions for these Soldiers that will not have big effects on the force. Who wants a disgruntled Company Commander (it's awful, I've lived it) or a BN S3 who is totally checked out? Imagine people in CPT/MAJ roles skipping out on drills and failing to complete paperwork for Soldiers. I told my leadership a year ago to batten down the hatches.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
CPT (Join to see) , Well said.
Interestingly enough, when I took my command, I had a Co CDR who was totally disengaged (not a RIF, just didn't care) - luckily I replaced him pretty soon, but I spent a lot of my time- as did the replacement CO CDR- in repairing the damage. I did get a BN S3 from AC who was totally checked out (Not a RIF, just found out that there was more to this "being a civilian" thing than he expected when he decided to leave active duty) - which led to me doing a thing I hate as a TPU CDR and effectively making one of the FTUS the "acting S3."
I can only image how much more fun it would have been if they had been "force into the RC" as well....
Interestingly enough, when I took my command, I had a Co CDR who was totally disengaged (not a RIF, just didn't care) - luckily I replaced him pretty soon, but I spent a lot of my time- as did the replacement CO CDR- in repairing the damage. I did get a BN S3 from AC who was totally checked out (Not a RIF, just found out that there was more to this "being a civilian" thing than he expected when he decided to leave active duty) - which led to me doing a thing I hate as a TPU CDR and effectively making one of the FTUS the "acting S3."
I can only image how much more fun it would have been if they had been "force into the RC" as well....
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This will sound harsh, but in general, why should the RC want them? From my perspective, we should be very careful about taking any of these officers in.
The CPTs cut because they had a large amount of TIS do not owe any more time on their contracts. If they wanted to join our Guard unit because they truly have military goals they still want to work to achieve, welcome. If they are just trying to serve out 20...move along...PLEASE!
The others who were cut due to poor performance or past indiscretions are absolutely not welcome. I hope that we don't play "pass the bad penny" here. I hope that AC will reveal the reason for the decision to release the officer to the NG State G1s so we have some kind of heads-up.
I'm not attempting to speak for the NG, but the idea that we are some kind of dumping ground infuriates me. Keep in mind that we are being cut too. 36th ID (my unit) is losing an entire IBCT. These officers should not expect that we have O3/O4 slots sitting vacant for them. Not only that, I have seen FB posts where they seem to think AGR jobs are available. WOW! Y'all are out of touch!
The CPTs cut because they had a large amount of TIS do not owe any more time on their contracts. If they wanted to join our Guard unit because they truly have military goals they still want to work to achieve, welcome. If they are just trying to serve out 20...move along...PLEASE!
The others who were cut due to poor performance or past indiscretions are absolutely not welcome. I hope that we don't play "pass the bad penny" here. I hope that AC will reveal the reason for the decision to release the officer to the NG State G1s so we have some kind of heads-up.
I'm not attempting to speak for the NG, but the idea that we are some kind of dumping ground infuriates me. Keep in mind that we are being cut too. 36th ID (my unit) is losing an entire IBCT. These officers should not expect that we have O3/O4 slots sitting vacant for them. Not only that, I have seen FB posts where they seem to think AGR jobs are available. WOW! Y'all are out of touch!
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SGM (Join to see)
As a former member of the 36th Airborne Brigade, the 71st IO Command, the 49th AD, and the 36th ID, I have to say
D_A_M_N___S_T_R_A_I_G_H_T_!
D_A_M_N___S_T_R_A_I_G_H_T_!
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COL Randall C.
CPT (Join to see), I would only add one modification to your comment.
"If they are just trying to serve out 20 AND don't have anything to offer while doing so...move along...PLEASE!"
I have absolutely no problem with bringing AC soldiers into the RC to finish out 20 years in order to become eligible for retirement. Same way as I don't have issues with soldiers that want to stay in the RC or AC in order to finish out 20 years or those that have any other motivation for joining up. HOWEVER, if you don't have anything to offer the RC in return...move along...PLEASE!
Your comments about passing the bad penny - couldn't agree more. It's been said often enough that I usually don't see many leaders that fail to understand the "Total Army" concept (often it's junior soldiers that have never had the experience of working with the RC) and that if you're not good enough to make it in one, you're not good enough to make it in all (COMPOs that is).
"If they are just trying to serve out 20 AND don't have anything to offer while doing so...move along...PLEASE!"
I have absolutely no problem with bringing AC soldiers into the RC to finish out 20 years in order to become eligible for retirement. Same way as I don't have issues with soldiers that want to stay in the RC or AC in order to finish out 20 years or those that have any other motivation for joining up. HOWEVER, if you don't have anything to offer the RC in return...move along...PLEASE!
Your comments about passing the bad penny - couldn't agree more. It's been said often enough that I usually don't see many leaders that fail to understand the "Total Army" concept (often it's junior soldiers that have never had the experience of working with the RC) and that if you're not good enough to make it in one, you're not good enough to make it in all (COMPOs that is).
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CPT (Join to see)
Sir, just be be clear, I did point out that Soldiers who still have goals they want to accomplish should feel welcome. It is just frustrating that people don't see how big the RC mission footprint is right now. That Soldier that you cut from AC probably has a greater chance of ending up deployed in an overseas assignment in the NG than if he/she stayed on active duty. That said, most Soldiers end up with an honorable discharge so there are no red flags. I'm just saying that if there is an issue, tell us! It doesn't automatically mean we won't take the Soldier.
[But then again, I know full well that this happens internally. I got a horrible NCO dumped on me after being rejected from two different MI shops in a year's time - both gave him 2/2 NCOERs because they knew if they gave him what he deserved, they'd never be rid of him.]
[But then again, I know full well that this happens internally. I got a horrible NCO dumped on me after being rejected from two different MI shops in a year's time - both gave him 2/2 NCOERs because they knew if they gave him what he deserved, they'd never be rid of him.]
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LTC (Join to see) , Two things in addition to what MSG Wade Huffman said:
1. RC mobilizations are not a change to the contract - they are built right into it.
2. I am not aware of any scenario where a RC Solider can be forced to transfer from RC to AC. This may well exist, I have just never hear of it.
1. RC mobilizations are not a change to the contract - they are built right into it.
2. I am not aware of any scenario where a RC Solider can be forced to transfer from RC to AC. This may well exist, I have just never hear of it.
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