Posted on Dec 23, 2014
Forced Participation in Christmas celebrations: What would you do?
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From a group for NCOs and former NCOs....
I am currently on a tour in XXXXXX, a newly assigned squad leader to a group of disgruntled soldiers who have been here 7 months. To help morale and esprit de corps, the company has thrown a massive Christmas party, decked to the nines with stockings Christmas everything.
The problem is, two of my Soldiers are not Christian in faith, one is a devout Muslim who does not celebrate Christmas. She informed her previous leadership that she does not celebrate and they forced her to participate in writing her name on a stocking and attend every Christmas party. The command team has refused to call it a holiday party, and has written Christmas on everything from the schedule to the walls. I heard from another NCO that she could be contemplating an EO complaint from the issue.
I researched a little about the Muslim faith and found that I would be upset if I were in her shoes too. I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. I would refer her to a chaplain, but the camp does not have a Muslim chaplain.
I don't want the situation to escalate, but I don't want to disrespect my new Soldier, who probably has a real case. What should I do? She obviously doesn't want to come to me because she doesn't know me, but they will question me if this all comes to a boil
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I know what I would do, but I'm an EOL, and have been through the training. What would YOU do?
I am currently on a tour in XXXXXX, a newly assigned squad leader to a group of disgruntled soldiers who have been here 7 months. To help morale and esprit de corps, the company has thrown a massive Christmas party, decked to the nines with stockings Christmas everything.
The problem is, two of my Soldiers are not Christian in faith, one is a devout Muslim who does not celebrate Christmas. She informed her previous leadership that she does not celebrate and they forced her to participate in writing her name on a stocking and attend every Christmas party. The command team has refused to call it a holiday party, and has written Christmas on everything from the schedule to the walls. I heard from another NCO that she could be contemplating an EO complaint from the issue.
I researched a little about the Muslim faith and found that I would be upset if I were in her shoes too. I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. I would refer her to a chaplain, but the camp does not have a Muslim chaplain.
I don't want the situation to escalate, but I don't want to disrespect my new Soldier, who probably has a real case. What should I do? She obviously doesn't want to come to me because she doesn't know me, but they will question me if this all comes to a boil
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I know what I would do, but I'm an EOL, and have been through the training. What would YOU do?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 25
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I would go to her and while telling her that I was not muslim, I was in no way intending to be offensive. I would also go to command on her behalf and my own, explaining to them that while the military is not a democracy, the government it represents does not have the power to recognize any particular religion or faith, as specified in the first amendment. We are serving to preserve and protect. How is blatantly ignoring it considered preservation?
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There's actually nothing in Islam to prohibits her from taking part in the secular festivities. It's when reference to "the savior" or worship becomes involved she hits a snag. The Koran recognizes Jesus as a prophet, and Christians are recognized as "people of the book" so it's not completely foreign. I would encourage her to take part in the non-religious aspects of the festivities and when something that runs counter to her faith comes up, quietly step to the rear and observe in a respectful fashion. Perhaps a few friends or unit members could assist in "shielding" her from offensive actions. She always has the option of offering to take a duty post so someone else can attend. She had to be aware that the major portion of our military is Christian to some extent when she signed up. It will be up to her in a large part, to find a way to fit in and be part of the team. It's also part of the teams job to help her find a way to do just that.
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CW3 (Join to see)
No, it's you who didn't read and you who didn't intend on actually discussing. It was a unit sponsored Christmas party, and the devout Muslim soldier was REQUIRED to attend and participate.
Unit cohesion does not require forcing others to participate in religious observances for a religion they do not share. There is no justifiable military reason for forcing a devout follower of another religion to attend a unit CHRISTMAS party.
Unit cohesion does not require forcing others to participate in religious observances for a religion they do not share. There is no justifiable military reason for forcing a devout follower of another religion to attend a unit CHRISTMAS party.
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PO3 John Jeter
Exactly Sir, it was a PARTY, not a worship service. You yourself made the observation that Christmas was both Secular, and religious. I proposed actions she could have taken to participate in the secular festivities and you cried that she was forced to attend. You have consistently sided with her freedom of choice without suggesting any action which would have contributed to morale or unit cohesion. There is absolutely nothing in the Islamic faith which precludes participation in secular festivities, so her complaint about the Christmas stocking is bogus. The stocking is folklore, not religious. If the followers of Islam and the followers of Christianity are ever to get along we had better start finding ways to respect each others beliefs and meeting in the middle. You don't hear these kinds of complaints from Buddhists, or Native Americans. I didn't hear any whines from the Atheists who are usually the first to scream. She ASKED to become part of this unit but now she wants the unit changed to accommodate her. That's not how it works.
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PO3 John Jeter
Capt. Prickett, I sincerely appreciate the comment and I understand your point. May I point out that I, in no way, urged any violation of anyones constitutional rights. I proposed that the young woman attend a secular function derived from folklore, not a worship service. For any moments which may have proven uncomfortable for the young lady, I offered a course of action which would preserve her religious identity while still allowing her to demonstrate that she was part of the unit. If she was unwilling to attempt that, she could have stood a duty post for a team member who wished to attend. That would have resolved the issue to everyones satisfaction and removed any contention. It's a matter of being part of your unit, a team member. Where the NEEDS of all are looked after, not the wants.
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PO3 John Jeter
Regardless of the name, this was not a religious observance. There was no worship involved, no sermon, no dogma. I did not say she should be punished by taking someone else duty post for the duration of the event. I suggested she could do that voluntarily to demonstrate being part of the team.
As far as being a "Christian" event consider this court case:
Pagan Origin
In 1990, the Solon, Ohio (a Cleveland suburb) school board banned all nativity and other Christmas scenes on any school property because they felt it violated the separation of church and state. They were challenged in court when outraged parents opposed them, feeling that Christmas was being stolen from their children and the community. The board lost the case! The citizenry had contended that Christmas was a worldwide tradition that was not part of, and transcended, religion. It was deemed to be secular—a part of virtually all cultures worldwide.
The court decision affirmed that Christmas has no Christian roots! However, the court’s opinion also noted that Bible reading and prayer obviously are associated with Christianity—a remarkable admission! The court concluded that Christmas-keeping and manger scenes could remain because they are not really part of either Christianity or religion—but prayer and Bible reading, which are, must remain excluded from schools!
As far as being a "Christian" event consider this court case:
Pagan Origin
In 1990, the Solon, Ohio (a Cleveland suburb) school board banned all nativity and other Christmas scenes on any school property because they felt it violated the separation of church and state. They were challenged in court when outraged parents opposed them, feeling that Christmas was being stolen from their children and the community. The board lost the case! The citizenry had contended that Christmas was a worldwide tradition that was not part of, and transcended, religion. It was deemed to be secular—a part of virtually all cultures worldwide.
The court decision affirmed that Christmas has no Christian roots! However, the court’s opinion also noted that Bible reading and prayer obviously are associated with Christianity—a remarkable admission! The court concluded that Christmas-keeping and manger scenes could remain because they are not really part of either Christianity or religion—but prayer and Bible reading, which are, must remain excluded from schools!
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I have not read anything aside from the Original Post. If this is redundant, I am sorry. However, I am very tired of being told that "I do not care about the unit because I am not participating in a unit event." While a Chain of Command cannot force you into participating in an event, they do have control over your NCOER/OER, and can give you horrible marks on for not being a "team player." So, while they cannot say "you need to buy this unit T-shirt," or "you need to attend this unit ball," they can say "this is an example that you do not want to be part of the unit."
Even if you claim religious reasons, they will still make it about your lack of cohesion. At least, it is in my experience. There are some people who would rather spend time with their families than go to a ball, but even then they are seen as not being team players. It sucks, I agree. But, it is a way for the Chain of Command of any unit to make sure all their Soldiers attend social functions so the next higher Chain and see what a wonderfully cohesive team they have.
Even if you claim religious reasons, they will still make it about your lack of cohesion. At least, it is in my experience. There are some people who would rather spend time with their families than go to a ball, but even then they are seen as not being team players. It sucks, I agree. But, it is a way for the Chain of Command of any unit to make sure all their Soldiers attend social functions so the next higher Chain and see what a wonderfully cohesive team they have.
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Chaplain would be a good start maybe not to take her or refer her, but to get information about the religion in general to see what the practices are. From there, my next stop would be the unit's EOL. If the event in any way has a religious feel or vibe to it and she is forced to participate when clearly against her religion, would definitely violate one of the five protected categories under to EO program. From there, the chain of command needs to be informed of the violations he is committing (or the personnel responsible).
Not a barracks lawyer, I'm a newly trained EOL! Good luck with the situation.
Not a barracks lawyer, I'm a newly trained EOL! Good luck with the situation.
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