Gay Army couple says chaplain barred them from marriage retreat
Your thoughts? Should Chaplains have the right to do this to soldiers?
A same-sex couple at Fort Irwin, Calif., says they have been denied participation in an Army marriage enrichment program because of their sexual orientation, even though they are legally married.
Marriage
Chaplain
LGBTQ+
The basic responsibility of a Chaplain is to provide for the spiritual well-being of the members of the command. Every Chaplain does this, and there are systems in place to assist them in locating support when they cannot personnally give that support.
Should the Chaplain be forced to minister to homosexuals, absolutely not. This is espcially true if their sponsoring organization makes it clear they refuse to support this lifestyle.
Should the Chaplain have made efforts to include the couple AND locate a member of the clergy that could individually minister to this couple? Yes. Officers must assume a certain level of objectivity and combat our own biases so we can do our jobs.
I good point and valid question. There is a fine line between establishing and supporting faith. As, frankly, a non-believer, it really doesn't matter to me how the Chaplains square the need to serve all with the desire to perpetuate their faith.
In the topic of the discussion, the Chaplain absolutely has a certain responsibility to contact a representative of the faith this is accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. Chaplains are free to use other Chaplains or civilian clergy.
That being said, the events referenced in the topic are financed with money set aside for the support of faith-based activities. I do not see it as unreasonable that if a couple signs up, they obligate themselves to hearing the message of the faithful in attendance. If they wanted to sign-up only to take advantage of the fantastic opportunity to have a free weekend at a nice hotel, basically all expenses paid, all they are doing is abusing the system. That takes the opportunity away from other couples of faith. Since Chaplains are dual hatted as Officers, they also have an obligation to see that they use their allocated funds in the most appropriate way possible, and providing free vacations to those who are unwilling to hear their message is not appropriate.
CPT Walk,
Thank you for your response. I'm still wondering how different the Army version of this course is. I don't recall any specifically "faith-based" activities in the "re-integration retreats" I've attended. Faith, in the abstract, was of course brought up as a source of strength or strife in a marriage, i.e. reconciling different faiths can add stress while sharing a faith (or lack thereof) can be a source of strength. This was always presented in terms of communication and compromise and understanding. There wasn't even a whiff of judgement though. For example, it was never suggested that faith in a higher power was a requirement for a healthy (or valid) marriage. There was time set aside Sunday morning for the faithful to attend a church service and seek religious counsel with the chaplain, but it wasn't mandatory. People of different faiths (and no faiths) were free during this period, but asked to reflect on lessons learned or just to spend time together as a couple and bond. At no time was I put in the awkward position of having to "hear the message of the faithful." I also don't see how such a message could be fairly presented without re-branding the retreat according to the facilitating Chaplain's specific religion and denomination, i.e. "strong Bonds: a Catholic Approach to Mutual Marital Guilt"
I guess I just don't see it as quite so black and white as you do. Perhaps there is some room for compromise between "milking the system" for a free weekend and an obligation to be patronized or pressured to conform to a certain dogma. As I stated above, I attended several of these and my wife and I did some difficult and beneficial work. We gained a deeper understanding of each other and a greater respect for our boundaries, beliefs, and needs. While it was indeed a delightful time, every time, it was also much more than that. I know we didn't lose anything by skipping church and I don't believe anyone else lost anything by me not being there to debate the Chaplain :).
SFC Gannon,
Your post seems to have sparked some emotions in many service members.
I will refrain from getting into a religious discussion on what the Bible says to me since many of us interpret it in different ways. The way it speaks to someone may be totally different than the way it speaks to another. This is one reason why we have so many different denominations (I.E. do we sprinkle or submerge in order to baptize?)
One of the things I learned early in my career (back when there was an FM 22-100 and 101) was to never place a Soldier in an ethical/moral dilemma.
For example: "I don't care how you do it, just get it done private".
This statement has a significant possibility to place a Soldier into an ethical/moral dilemma.
Senior leaders in the military have an obligation to not put our Chaplains in an ethical/moral dilemma as well.
FM 1-05 states:
"1-12 As credentialed religious leaders, who are themselves guaranteed the free exercise of religion,chaplains cannot perform religious support contrary to their faith tradition, tenets, and beliefs."
Counseling by Chaplains, in my experience, tends to be faith based. To me a marriage retreat led by a Chaplain would be "religious support". This thought is supported when FM 1-05 1-17 Family-Life Ministry is placed under Religious Support Functions.
I would not expect a Christian Chaplain to perform a Wiccan Service for Soldiers in the unit with Wiccan beliefs. I would expect that the Soldiers of Wiccan belief had support to practice their faith similar to that of the Christian Soldiers that were supported by the Chaplain. I would apply this to a Marriage Retreat as well. I would not expect a Chaplain who did not believe in same sex marriages to lead a marriage retreat involving same sex couples. I would expect same sex couples to be afforded the opportunity for a marriage enrichment retreat as well.
Respectfully,
SFC Weems
Religion - Infantry
(If you are willing to watch my flank, you are my religious brother/sister.
In the event of my death: Birds got to eat same as worms - Just make sure my spouse gets the check.)
SFC Weems is correct there are actually strong bonds programs for single soldiers... I don't get it either, but they do have them.
It seems like someone could modify the training at the event to try and help same-sex couples. Though if you are going to modify the event it should be held as a separate event (Just like the Single strong bonds events).
Yea that's my underlying point. One of my debate strategies is to lead the opponent to making my point for me.
So yes they do offer a seperate strong bonds for single soldiers? Why? Because they have different needs. As do same sex couples have different needs from heterosexuals.
Bottom Line, another good program lost to PC oversensitivity.
The bottom line for me is that, yes, the Chaplains have the "right", in accordance with the laws and regulations they serve under to not counsel or participate in events with same-sex marriage couples.
Having said that, it seems clear that the military, being an organization that is inclusive of all marriages equally - including same-sex ones - must either find a way to place Chaplains who have faith that is contrary to the values and standards of military service (which now include equal acceptance of same-sex marriages) into places where their faith and service will not be put in opposition to each other, OR, thank them for their loyal service and dismiss them because their personal faith is no longer congruent with military regulations and standards.
We should not put Chaplains in a position that requires them to violate their faith; however, we also must ensure that military standards and values are upheld for all Servicemembers, equally.
Just because it is legal does not make something right.
Think about all the "fat cat" CEO's "stealing" from the little guy, even though they are not breaking the law (Think of how many times you hear people say; 'there should be a law against that') .
Before I get into the question at hand I would like to point out that the military has led our society in all civil rights issues of the 100 years. From desegregation, women serving alongside men, gay rights, to most recently allowing women to hold combat occupational specialties. Could you imagine what our society might look like had the Military not taken the lead to prove religious conservatives and biggots alike wrong. The world has not ended, and from my education(B.A. History) many societies have been waiting for the immenent Armageddon right around the corner for over a thousand years. Hopefully you have access to the news in the afterlife(if that what you believe in ), but if I was a betting man , that is something I wouldn't put my money on. From where I am sitting all these changes have only made our military a true institution of equality, and stronger in combat, and bond.
The following quote from our brother SGT Gary M. Franks state the obvious misunderstanding of what our military stands for and implies that one should discriminate or hold an unproffessional bias against someone who is willing to risk there lives for our country: "Our society has is encouraging Social and Personal Desires with Moral Values. This is not a commentary to Bash Gays, it is a statement that demonstrates that the Rights of One Group supersede the Rights of another. That is, Christians believe that the Act of Homosexuality is against God. Now we are being forced to accept it".
This is unacceptable and only creates room for others to interpret as a "green light" to hate/discriminate.
Let me remind you that the military is not an institution based on religion, but one based on a common set of morals and ethics(7 Army values for the Soldiers out there). Now where you gain your understanding and appreciation for said values is not an issue, just as long as you understand the organization in which you have joined. With that being said ALL people are aware of this prior to joining(Yes, this includes Chaplains). The military makes all efforts withing its regulations to accomodate religious practices and beliefs, up until it violates these regulations. You can't join and then later decide to violate the morals and ethics that you swore to abide by....Therefore, using a religious/personal belief to justify discrimination or hate is absurd. To simply put it if your religion/beliefs trump the obligation you have in the service to your country....Don't join.
Respectfully,
Jorge
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