Posted on Jan 28, 2016
Given how important tabs are in the Army, should a prior service Marine now in the Army have a special tab indicating their background?
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NOTE: This post was originally asked by a former member who didn't want to be associated with the debate. In the interest of retaining the question and everyone's comments, we have migrated the discussion here. Thank you!
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 126
There isn't a GD thing on a uniform that can take the douche-bag out of someone. If you think a Ranger tab can make you a Soldier, you're sorely mistaken. Now...that general comment aside, Ranger School is a great leadership course on basic and advanced patrolling techniques and is an amazing gut check if you've never been put under that kind of stress. We have to remember why it was created though. It wasn't on a whim. At some point, REAL Rangers (not just tab wearing, check the block so I can be accepted in the boy scouts "rangers") decided that there needed to be a process in order to train people for the rigors of war that were expected of a real Ranger. That's a pretty good prep course. If you can earn that, you are a little harder than your average bear. Now...there are just as many tool bags with Ranger Tabs as anywhere else in the Army. That Tab doesn't mean a damn thing if you act like an absolute ass-clown because you have something that others don't. To the bad ones it's something to lord over other people about. It's something to check for on a sleeve to determine someone's worth. It's something that makes you better. To the good ones, it's just something that tells other people that they have something to pass on to others. That they...having succeeded where others have failed or never tried to accomplish...have something valuable to impart on the rest of us...HUMBLY. What you do on a daily basis maters. Not your Tab, your Patch, your red socks or funny hat. None of that crap matters. Actions matter. I'm a fan of keeping all that crap on your records and stripping it from your body. I don't think that will ever happen. There are quite a few elitists that need to be able to show their minimum 15 pieces of flair to feel good about themselves.
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SGT Del Lavature
Well the comments are widely diverse to the question that was asked I do have this to say. I agree that if you want to be recognized as a marine you should've stayed a marine. Would I have a problem if you wore a recon badge below your pocket similar to some sappers probably not. As per the comments that everyone should be stripped down of they achievements and look the same absolutely not. The SGM above was correct younger enlisted soldiers look to our peers in awe. Take a walk down smoke bomb hill as a young E-3 or E-4 all I saw was high speed triple stacked Green Berets. It was absolutely inspiring it made me want to do more, go above the standard and show that I wanted to be the best. Maybe I didn't take that route in my career but dammit if I'm gonna support an idea that takes a special forces tab, ranger tab or any other tab off someone that worked their ass off to earn the right to wear it. We know the tab is a school and the scroll is the real deal but honestly I have mutual respect for both. Be the leader you want to be, set the example for your soldiers, but don't take off what I earned so I can look just like a leg that joined for college money and won't go to a school that is pretty much handed to them. (I'll use air assault school in Hawaii for my example). I'm not an elitest, I don't seek attention but is it nice to be looked at by my peers as a high speed soldier you bet it is. First impressions are everything it's how you conduct yourself afterwards that rewards your charecter. Some of the most humble people in the world have some of the most decorated uniforms.
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COL (Join to see)
SP5 Chris Golembe - Is that comment for me or for someone else on the thread? Hard to tell. Same thing for the second comment.
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COL (Join to see)
SP5 Chris Golembe - aaand...if it's for me, here's what I said above: "Ranger School is a great leadership course on basic and advanced patrolling techniques ." It's a leadership school. Pretty sure I stated that. It's also a school fundamentally rooted in patrolling and infantry tactics.
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<p>When I was a 1LT assigned to the 25th Infantry Division, I hadn't deployed yet. Every meeting I went to, the first thing they did was check your right shoulder to see if you had deployed. If you hadn't, you were summarily dismissed and nothing you said held any weight. I hated that feeling and was fortunate to deploy shortly thereafter.</p><p> </p><p>I fear with the upcoming change of mission in Afghanistan, we will start to see this perpetuate again. I tell everyone I meet that I don't judge Soldiers based on past performance. I judge them based on their competence and ability to accomplish the mission, as well as how they treat other Soldiers, regardless of rank, APFT score, skill badges, deployment stripes, etc.</p><p> </p><p>So far, it's worked well for me.</p>
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CW3 Jim Norris
MAJ (Join to see) - John: What I find interesting in the Army today is the attitude that 'deployment' is/was a choice. During my day, it was a matter of orders, you got sent to Vietnam on orders...or you went to Korea or Germany...it wasn't a choice. Those that chose to stay for more than one tour (a year was a 'tour") were looked on as hard asses and somewhat goofy in most infantry units. Valued by guys like me that were fresh out of the 11B/C 'shake and bake NCO school' at Benning and of course we had 'citizen soldiers' (draftees) back then and most young folks just wanted to do their tour and get out alive and go home. The very best LTs were those, from whatever background, that knew what they didn't know, realized that they had the responsibility to accomplish the mission with as little of our blood as possible and that respected SP4 Johnnies 9 months 'in country' and would accept his recommendations about where his M60 should be on the perimeter if the platoon sergeant agreed with him, 95% of the time. We all shared the same level of risk and terror at most times. 2LT Miller was one of my favorites - he joined us after I had been a squad leader for several months and told me up front - you keep me from stepping on land mines I can't see, take care of your people and we'll do this together.....and then yelled at me to get my ass over on the flank during a fire fight - he could see from his position a large number of the little brown people that I couldn't. Because he had shown me respect, I never hesitated to show him the same.....a couple of the LTs before him had not done so well and suffered less than optimum response from the platoon.....I still can see faces clearly in my mind after 40+ years of young men and feel the hot rain on my face....war is not something to be taken lightly and brothers in arms are truly bonded for life......if you're going to be One, be a Big Red One......Jim
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Sgt Lowell Tackett
GySgt John Olson - Didn't Eisenhower have something like 237 years in grade as a Lt. Col.?
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1SG David Akerson
Soldiers govwhere their Orders tell them to go. No shame in where you served but only question is how well one served!
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Cpl (Join to see)
Deployments matter in the infantry. If you haven’t deployed, you’re a boot. You have to do your time. I too am a former infantry Marine now in the Army. I find that the people who don’t like people wearing tabs or combat patches are either pogs or boots. Or both. I really can’t understand the logic of joining the military for a non combat mos. And ranger tabs are fairly prestigious and i think a lot of people would argue that it does put you above your peers, as it should.
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I long time ago, during my Infantry days I had he pleasure of being mentored by a Senior NCO, Combat Vet and US Army Ranger (CSM Purdy). Anyone that knew CSM Purdy can tell you he was a straight shooter. He believed that Ranger School was an essential leadership school and a right of passage for Infantrymen.
One of his most famous sayings to troopers heading out for Ranger School was the following;
" There are two types of soldiers that return from Ranger school. The ones that come back with a Tab or the ones that have a story! Which one are you gonna be Troop!"
My advice to my son when he decided to branch Infantry at USMA, was if you go infantry as an officer need to be committed to leadership and the infantry life meaning - "earning the Ranger Tab!"
So for the TAB Check -
My son graduated from Ranger Class 08-14, just a few months ago in August and as for me (Old Greg) graduation from Ranger school was twenty three years ago class 3-91.
One of his most famous sayings to troopers heading out for Ranger School was the following;
" There are two types of soldiers that return from Ranger school. The ones that come back with a Tab or the ones that have a story! Which one are you gonna be Troop!"
My advice to my son when he decided to branch Infantry at USMA, was if you go infantry as an officer need to be committed to leadership and the infantry life meaning - "earning the Ranger Tab!"
So for the TAB Check -
My son graduated from Ranger Class 08-14, just a few months ago in August and as for me (Old Greg) graduation from Ranger school was twenty three years ago class 3-91.
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SFC Jeff Stevenson
Greg,
Thought you spent more time before me, but I was wrong. I did my time in class 10/88 and had a great ranger buddy.
When I started my SF time, the lessons that I had learned while going through ranger school just enhanced my ability to teach FM 7-8 as we deploy to do down range. The Ranger Tab is a very big deal when training other country militaries and and to go to their "ranger school" adds more to those who have done that road.
That being said, Congrats to your son, time to pass the torch, and hope they can keep it as bright as when we were there.
Stay in touch Greg.
Thought you spent more time before me, but I was wrong. I did my time in class 10/88 and had a great ranger buddy.
When I started my SF time, the lessons that I had learned while going through ranger school just enhanced my ability to teach FM 7-8 as we deploy to do down range. The Ranger Tab is a very big deal when training other country militaries and and to go to their "ranger school" adds more to those who have done that road.
That being said, Congrats to your son, time to pass the torch, and hope they can keep it as bright as when we were there.
Stay in touch Greg.
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CPT (Join to see)
I have heard many stories of the "Prud." I have never met him but he seems to have been a great leader. I have read a lot about him. I am sure you could tell some great one. I would say that Ranger is more than a tab. It shows what kind of leader you are. I went to class 05-02 and came back with a story. I was determined to go back. Many years later I graduated from class 05-14.
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SGM Gregory Tarancon IV
LT,
Glad to see you had the intestinal fortune to return to the course, it speaks volumes about your character and leadership. Since my son and I are both Ranger Qualified, we recall Ranger Course experiences, it a great connection. After he graduated Ranger school he PCS from Fort Benning and went straight to Fort Campbell, KY were he reported into the 101st Airborne and a new platoon leader. On the day he signed into his new unit; he called me to tell me that he was glad to show up already Ranger, Airborne and Air Assault qualified. He experienced first-hand how Tab officers versus non-tab officers are treated in high speed infantry units.
I also agree that the being a Ranger is more than just a tab of cloth. It a commitment to the Ranger Creed and the Ranger way; there another old saying: “There are Rangers who are “Tab Bearers” and then there are those who are just “Tab wearers”. I don’t know who originally said it but the first time I heard it was from CSM Purdy. CSM Purdy was a one of a kind soldier; I encourage everyone to read his bio on the Ranger hall of fame. I wish we had more leaders like him left in the Army!
Glad to see you had the intestinal fortune to return to the course, it speaks volumes about your character and leadership. Since my son and I are both Ranger Qualified, we recall Ranger Course experiences, it a great connection. After he graduated Ranger school he PCS from Fort Benning and went straight to Fort Campbell, KY were he reported into the 101st Airborne and a new platoon leader. On the day he signed into his new unit; he called me to tell me that he was glad to show up already Ranger, Airborne and Air Assault qualified. He experienced first-hand how Tab officers versus non-tab officers are treated in high speed infantry units.
I also agree that the being a Ranger is more than just a tab of cloth. It a commitment to the Ranger Creed and the Ranger way; there another old saying: “There are Rangers who are “Tab Bearers” and then there are those who are just “Tab wearers”. I don’t know who originally said it but the first time I heard it was from CSM Purdy. CSM Purdy was a one of a kind soldier; I encourage everyone to read his bio on the Ranger hall of fame. I wish we had more leaders like him left in the Army!
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