Posted on Dec 1, 2016
Has anyone ever been in a screaming match or any altercation with their superiors?
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I can never have an argument with someone who is senior to me. Especially in front of the troops. That was driven into me in the 80's Army Armor Corp. We can have a spirited discussion. But once it is said and done you follow orders/directions.
Now what happens in the turret stayes on the turret.
Now what happens in the turret stayes on the turret.
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Not in my chain of command, but ...
Back in the day, in an unnamed NCO club in an unnamed town in Germany, there was a company of Special Forces guys in there waiting to fly back to CONUS.
I (then a PFC) went to the restroom, in the back of the bar. I came out, one of them grabbed me from the back, tried to reach down my shirt. I swung around and hit him in the face, breaking his nose -- blood everywhere. This isn't as much of a mis-match as you might think. I was pretty big and strong for a female soldier, had learned some self-defense as a civilian, he was totally plastered and I was totally sober. But I sure thought I was in trouble!
This was Saturday; on Monday an SF light colonel came in with the SSG in tow. Racoon eyes, busted nose, sheepish look. He apologized. Then the colonel asked what I would like him to do to the guy (he was PISSED!)? Basically, I said "nothing" if he paid for my shirt, which was bloody. I figured he was humiliated enough.
Later, a few guys from my unit came up and told me I probably saved the guy's career.
Some may say he didn't deserve that (the save). But this was when women were first entering into the "regular" Army. The WACS were just a year or so gone. To me, it was a case of "let the punishment fit the crime" and I was ever so thankful I wasn't the one being punished for hitting an NCO!
Not sure how that would have worked out in today's army, but I felt it worked well then.
Back in the day, in an unnamed NCO club in an unnamed town in Germany, there was a company of Special Forces guys in there waiting to fly back to CONUS.
I (then a PFC) went to the restroom, in the back of the bar. I came out, one of them grabbed me from the back, tried to reach down my shirt. I swung around and hit him in the face, breaking his nose -- blood everywhere. This isn't as much of a mis-match as you might think. I was pretty big and strong for a female soldier, had learned some self-defense as a civilian, he was totally plastered and I was totally sober. But I sure thought I was in trouble!
This was Saturday; on Monday an SF light colonel came in with the SSG in tow. Racoon eyes, busted nose, sheepish look. He apologized. Then the colonel asked what I would like him to do to the guy (he was PISSED!)? Basically, I said "nothing" if he paid for my shirt, which was bloody. I figured he was humiliated enough.
Later, a few guys from my unit came up and told me I probably saved the guy's career.
Some may say he didn't deserve that (the save). But this was when women were first entering into the "regular" Army. The WACS were just a year or so gone. To me, it was a case of "let the punishment fit the crime" and I was ever so thankful I wasn't the one being punished for hitting an NCO!
Not sure how that would have worked out in today's army, but I felt it worked well then.
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Although I never laid a hand on any of my Superiors, I did get into a screaming match once when I was being issued my original clothes during my time in Reception Station at Fort Dix, because the HR Section had misspelled my last name on everything! Those poor girls in the quartermaster's issuing point just didn't understand how something like this could happen! The same was for my SFC in the company dayroom. But he got things corrected. The next time was when my SDI ordered me to sit on a bush because of that same spelling issue. Except this time, I used a little psychology on him, and spoke with a very soft voice. That really pissed him off! And week before, that my whole platoon was told of a trainee who requested to go to Sick Call. Whoever in their infinite wisdom in that company's office, had handed the trainee his entire records package and sent him to Sick Call! That trainee was never seen again. He walked off base, with all of his HR Records, and from that point on, No one could even try to charge him with Desertion, because the Army didn't have any records of this trainee ever being enlisted or drafted! Shame on HR Section.
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reminds me of when i was in Panama. the alcoholic major we had for a unit commander was on my ass all the time about anything. he hated Warrants unless you went to the club with him after work and drank till he decided he was drunk enough to go home. i was not one of his boys. so my pissy ass platoon leader told me one day the major wanted to see me in his office so i went in. reported and then he jumped in my shit. well having a mouth i told him loud enough the whole orderly room heard. "I am tired of your bullshit" and he got so red faced and told me dismised so when i left found out a little later that day he went to JAG and saw the Col there and wanted to have me Court martialed for disrespect to a superior officer, cant do was told so he said ok article 15, nope was told so he was not in my rating scheme but he decided to put me in motor pool knowing we had an IG inspection coming up. I was a Huey Pilot and he also put me flying the OH58 who flew the Infantry Brigade commander . well we passed the IG inspection with flying colors and that pissed him off also. so he wrote my OER and the system had just gone from 100 to 200 on OER's well i got a hundred and a lot of BS on the OER. when i retired i was RA W-2 with 11yrs and 3 months in grade. needless to say he kept me from getting promoted no matter how good my OER'S were after that by several commanders i had . promote ahead of on almost all my OER'S after that but to no avail. Ring Knockers are a closed bunch. most are ok but some as jus plain Assholes. he was an asshole. period had been relieved of two commands prior to panama. one because of his son and one because of his drinking problem. i realize my mouth is what got me into trouble but it is ok all done and over. since i was RA pass over for reserve W-3 was 5 times and RA 3 times but i was 18 yrs and locked by last pass over so i retired RA W-2 and ask if i could Reserve W-3. . personnel laughed and said Not only no but hell no. life is fun. been retired now 41 years. it is great
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In the Navy aboard ship a lot of "Discussions" were resolved in the Bos'n Locker, or the fan room. Two people walk in and whoever walked out was correct.
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A screming match will turn into one way conversation with UCMJ; disagreements wirh conversations are different ball game.
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Strongly worded discussion was as far as it ever got. But as an officer I was working in a different environment. When in Vietnam as a Captain, we had a Major in the headquarters who was a total loser who mostly hid in his hooch with his stack of Penthouse magazines. He was not my supervisor, but did outrank me. I came close to telling him what I really thought of him but the Battalion commander intervened, told me privately that he agreed with me, but asked me to exercise self control while he worked to get this Major out of our unit. A screaming match or physical altercation would have to be dealt with in the harshest terms. A military organization cannot tolerate that type of behavior for any reason. If I had ever had a junior enlisted react to an NCO with screaming or violence that enlisted man would be arrested and would face as a minimum a Special Courts Martial.
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I just completed my MOS in 1967 as a Medic at Fort Sam Houston. I had signed up to go Airborne and would go to the airport the next day with a dozen other idiots who also volunteered. I have little time to pack up my duffle bag and a suitcase with my civilian clothes.
A rather large NCO comes in my barracks and says he needs me to do some clean up. We were the only two in the barracks. I said I am getting ready to go to jump school. Can you get one of the new guys that just arrived???
He stood straight over me, looked down at me and said NO. As I recall he towered over me and was angry about something that had nothing to do with me.
I said the barracks looks clean, what do you want me to do? He said see the metal cans (red painted quart size cans with water in them attached to post throughout the barracks to put out cigarettes), empty them all, wash and clean them, rehang them and come get me to inspect them.
So I was trying to control my anger so I grabbed the first one over my head and yanked it off the nail it was attached to. It was full and I grabbed with a little too much force and and threw the contents on him by accident. I figured he was going to kick my ass but he stood there in complete control.
He said private (E2), I am taking your suitcase to HQ, you are confined to this barracks and you will hear more about your Article 14 on Monday. He than walked away with my suitcase.
I don’t know where he went but I did leave later to go eat in the mess hall. The next morning I could see a bus at the end of the barracks and the others guys I was going to jump school were out there waiting with their stuff. Another Sgt. started calling out names and I heard my name called. They were all loading that bus to go to the airport for Fort Benning, Georgia.
One last time I heard an angel summons me to that bus, actually Sgt. calling me one last time. I grabbed my duffle bag and sprinted to that bus. That would be the last time I would see that Sgt. and his final words were “no drinking alcohol on that (civilian) plane.
We went to the airport, loaded the plane and got put in First Class seats. A good looking young lady asked me if I wanted anything to drink? I said yes, a COLD beer. The other guys said what about what the Sgt. said? I said I don’t see him on this plane. The other eleven laughed and requested cold beers.
I would go complete jump school, go serve as infantry medic with Company C, 1/501st, 101st Airborne to Vietnam and get an honorable discharge the following year after completing my 24 months.
A month after I got out of the service, they sent my boxed suitcase to my Dads home.
Also when I got home from Vietnam early, they gave me another months leave. Besides my suitcase, I got a letter demanding I pay back that extra months pay, no joke. I wrote a letter back, over 50 years ago,, but I can remember writing “ when Secretary of Defense McNamara (who lost a ship and troops to North Korea, Google this) pays for that ship, I’ll pay you for my extra month. I never again heard back from the Army. True story
A rather large NCO comes in my barracks and says he needs me to do some clean up. We were the only two in the barracks. I said I am getting ready to go to jump school. Can you get one of the new guys that just arrived???
He stood straight over me, looked down at me and said NO. As I recall he towered over me and was angry about something that had nothing to do with me.
I said the barracks looks clean, what do you want me to do? He said see the metal cans (red painted quart size cans with water in them attached to post throughout the barracks to put out cigarettes), empty them all, wash and clean them, rehang them and come get me to inspect them.
So I was trying to control my anger so I grabbed the first one over my head and yanked it off the nail it was attached to. It was full and I grabbed with a little too much force and and threw the contents on him by accident. I figured he was going to kick my ass but he stood there in complete control.
He said private (E2), I am taking your suitcase to HQ, you are confined to this barracks and you will hear more about your Article 14 on Monday. He than walked away with my suitcase.
I don’t know where he went but I did leave later to go eat in the mess hall. The next morning I could see a bus at the end of the barracks and the others guys I was going to jump school were out there waiting with their stuff. Another Sgt. started calling out names and I heard my name called. They were all loading that bus to go to the airport for Fort Benning, Georgia.
One last time I heard an angel summons me to that bus, actually Sgt. calling me one last time. I grabbed my duffle bag and sprinted to that bus. That would be the last time I would see that Sgt. and his final words were “no drinking alcohol on that (civilian) plane.
We went to the airport, loaded the plane and got put in First Class seats. A good looking young lady asked me if I wanted anything to drink? I said yes, a COLD beer. The other guys said what about what the Sgt. said? I said I don’t see him on this plane. The other eleven laughed and requested cold beers.
I would go complete jump school, go serve as infantry medic with Company C, 1/501st, 101st Airborne to Vietnam and get an honorable discharge the following year after completing my 24 months.
A month after I got out of the service, they sent my boxed suitcase to my Dads home.
Also when I got home from Vietnam early, they gave me another months leave. Besides my suitcase, I got a letter demanding I pay back that extra months pay, no joke. I wrote a letter back, over 50 years ago,, but I can remember writing “ when Secretary of Defense McNamara (who lost a ship and troops to North Korea, Google this) pays for that ship, I’ll pay you for my extra month. I never again heard back from the Army. True story
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SGT Kelly is right but as he said heated conversation is not uncommon. I did and was reprimanded for it but in the end they knew they were wrong...
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