Posted on Aug 3, 2014
Have you, or another soldier you known, not worn your awards on your uniform?
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In my time in the Army have seen soldiers from just about all ranks with various badges. I have also seen some that chose not to wear any badges on their daily uniform. I know some may say they can be used to judge you or your character as a soldier. Most of us in the infantry are familiar with the infamous tab check when you met another infantry leader. But what value does that place on the badge.
When I first arrived on Fort Bragg a long time ago just about every soldier here was Airborne. So, it was pretty much implied that you were Airborne. Especially if you were in one of the infantry units. At some point I didn’t wear my wings. I was pulled to the side by a Senior NCO and questioned why I wasn’t wearing my wings. I really didn’t have a good answer besides that I felt that being Airborne was no big deal. I was schooled up a bit by him. In the past being airborne was extremely challenging and those that were Airborne had to earn their wings. It would also instill a sense of pride. They were among the best that helped win wars. Over time we lost this emphasis on what it really meant to be airborne. After this I would sew on my wings, and now other badges, to my uniforms. I see it as an honor to wear my awards.
What have you seen of this? Does it really make a difference in esprit de corps of a unit to not wear your awards? What are your reasons if you choose not to wear them?
When I first arrived on Fort Bragg a long time ago just about every soldier here was Airborne. So, it was pretty much implied that you were Airborne. Especially if you were in one of the infantry units. At some point I didn’t wear my wings. I was pulled to the side by a Senior NCO and questioned why I wasn’t wearing my wings. I really didn’t have a good answer besides that I felt that being Airborne was no big deal. I was schooled up a bit by him. In the past being airborne was extremely challenging and those that were Airborne had to earn their wings. It would also instill a sense of pride. They were among the best that helped win wars. Over time we lost this emphasis on what it really meant to be airborne. After this I would sew on my wings, and now other badges, to my uniforms. I see it as an honor to wear my awards.
What have you seen of this? Does it really make a difference in esprit de corps of a unit to not wear your awards? What are your reasons if you choose not to wear them?
Awards
Badges
Edited 8 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 27
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I have a question that parallels yours CPT (Join to see) ......I was fortunate enough to earn my EIB when I was a grunt. In Iraq, I was awarded a CAB. Left to my own discretion, I would never wear a CAB over an EIB. I know that if a CIB is awarded it is to be worn over the EIB since they are both class I. Does the CAB have to be worn instead of the EIB? In this ex-grunt's eyes, that dog just don't hunt.
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CPT (Join to see)
They are all group one awards. You can chose any group one award you want. The only combat award that is not group 1 is the CFMB. In this case you would wear a CMB and a CIB.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LT Rosa I think it says group 1 or group 2. The medical badges are the only 2 in group 2. DA PAM 670-1 "3) Personnel may wear up to three badges above the ribbons or pocket flap, or in a similar location for uniforms without pockets. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badges from either group 1 or group 2 above the ribbons. Soldiers may wear up to three badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons. One badge from either group 1 or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons so long as the total number of badges above the ribbons does not exceed three."
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LTC Jason Mackay
For the ACU: "(1) Badges are worn one above the other, centered above the U.S. Army tape, in order of group precedence, from top to bottom and from the wearer’s right to left. Badges may all be either sew-on or pin-on. Soldiers may only wear badges in a deployed environment if sewn on.
(2) Personnel may wear up to five badges above the U.S. Army tape so long as space allows for the badges on the individual’s uniform. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badge from either group 1 or group 2. Soldiers may wear up to five badges from groups 3 and 4. One badge from either group 1 or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 so long as the total number of badges on the combat uniform does not exceed five."
(2) Personnel may wear up to five badges above the U.S. Army tape so long as space allows for the badges on the individual’s uniform. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badge from either group 1 or group 2. Soldiers may wear up to five badges from groups 3 and 4. One badge from either group 1 or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 so long as the total number of badges on the combat uniform does not exceed five."
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LTC Jason Mackay
The Groups: "22–16. Combat and special skill badges and tabs
a. Listed below in order of group precedence are combat and special skill badges authorized for wear on the Army uniform.
(1) Group 1. Combat Infantryman badges (three awards) (see fig 22–33); Expert Infantryman badge (see fig 22–34); Combat Action badge (see fig 22–35).
(2) Group 2. Combat Medical badges (three awards) (see fig 22–36); Expert Field Medical badge (see fig 22–37).
(3) Group 3. Army Astronaut device (worn attached to any aviation badge) (see fig 22–38); Army Aviator badges(three degrees) (see fig 22–39); Flight Surgeon badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–40); Aviation badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–41); Explosive Ordnance Disposal badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–42).
(4) Group 4. Glider badge (see fig 22–43); Parachutist badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–44); Parachutist badges with combat jump device (four degrees are shown at fig 22–45); Pathfinder badge (see fig 22–46); Military Freefall Parachutist badges (two degrees) (see fig 22–47); Military Freefall Parachutist badges with combat jump device; Air Assault badge (see fig 22–48); Sapper, Ranger, and Special Forces tab metal replicas (see figs 22–49 through 22–51).
(5) Group 5. Diver badges (five badges) (see fig 22–52); Driver and Mechanic badge (see fig 22–53); Parachute Rigger badge (see fig 22–54).
(6) Physical fitness badge. The physical fitness badge is authorized for wear on the physical fitness uniform and the improved physical fitness uniform, only (see fig 22–55)."
a. Listed below in order of group precedence are combat and special skill badges authorized for wear on the Army uniform.
(1) Group 1. Combat Infantryman badges (three awards) (see fig 22–33); Expert Infantryman badge (see fig 22–34); Combat Action badge (see fig 22–35).
(2) Group 2. Combat Medical badges (three awards) (see fig 22–36); Expert Field Medical badge (see fig 22–37).
(3) Group 3. Army Astronaut device (worn attached to any aviation badge) (see fig 22–38); Army Aviator badges(three degrees) (see fig 22–39); Flight Surgeon badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–40); Aviation badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–41); Explosive Ordnance Disposal badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–42).
(4) Group 4. Glider badge (see fig 22–43); Parachutist badges (three degrees) (see fig 22–44); Parachutist badges with combat jump device (four degrees are shown at fig 22–45); Pathfinder badge (see fig 22–46); Military Freefall Parachutist badges (two degrees) (see fig 22–47); Military Freefall Parachutist badges with combat jump device; Air Assault badge (see fig 22–48); Sapper, Ranger, and Special Forces tab metal replicas (see figs 22–49 through 22–51).
(5) Group 5. Diver badges (five badges) (see fig 22–52); Driver and Mechanic badge (see fig 22–53); Parachute Rigger badge (see fig 22–54).
(6) Physical fitness badge. The physical fitness badge is authorized for wear on the physical fitness uniform and the improved physical fitness uniform, only (see fig 22–55)."
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General Dempsey does not wear all his medals and he backed it up by stating the 670-1 does not require the SM to wear them....so would that be wrong? Unit policy does not trump ARmy Regulations or does it?
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CPT (Join to see)
He only wears two rows of ribbons. Reminds me of WWII generals. I have seen them do that. It looks cleaner that way. Plus it is easier for him to set up.
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SFC A.M. Drake
correct sir, and this was on his ASU's during the State of the Union address so who in RP land going to say he was wrong? or not in regulation? Do I hear silence or crickets......?
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SSG Tim Everett
Two things, and bear in mind I got out in 2004 and the regs may have changed, and I also may be mis-remembering:
1.) Generals are allegedly exempt from 670-1, or so the urban legend used to go.
2.) Soldiers are authorised to "dress down" their ribbons and wear only the top two rows.
1.) Generals are allegedly exempt from 670-1, or so the urban legend used to go.
2.) Soldiers are authorised to "dress down" their ribbons and wear only the top two rows.
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A lot of times this is dictated in policy by unit. Examples: at Ft. Campbell, you could wear badges in any approved order on your ACUs, but AASLT had to be the highest Group 4 badge (meaning, worn above ABN, P-FNDR, etc.); in Germany (173rd), anyone who had ABN must wear their wings, while all else was optional. In both of these cases, I arrived at the unit without the respective wings. Seeing everyone else walking around with them just fueled an internal fire to get into the school and earn what my peers had that I did not. So I see it as a motivational tool that does all the work itself. You could probably argue that a CDR can't require it without providing the badges (the whole money thing), but that's a cheap cop-out... almost like saying "I can't polish my jump boots because you didn't issue me any kiwi."
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CPT (Join to see)
I just saw a soldier here in the guard at Fort Dix with his AASLT over his airborne. I don't know of any AASLT guard units. I was going to ask him about it but it was only in passing at the chow hall and i didn't see him again.
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SFC (Join to see)
Unless it's mandated by the commander, AASLT and ABN are completely interchangeable. They belong to the same badge group, so the order of precedence is up to the wearer (again, unless in policy by the CDR.) Personally, some of my uniforms have ABN sewn on top, so I'll wear my 173rd combat patch to match it, and some have AASLT sewn on top, so I wear the 101st patch with those. Nothing requires that though, other than making my OCD happy.
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I think the badges are important. It's not a "show off" thing. It's pride and it shows what you have earned and worked your ass off for. It shows that the Army entrusted their faith in you and yes, they paid money so that you could go to that school. You got up every morning and did PT and did the hard work and you did your jumps and you didn't die! So yeah, why not wear your badge/patches?! It does show other's that there are goals that a Soldier can strive for and can earn points for promotion(s) as well. Don't you want to go places in your career whether within the Military and even outside once you leave?? Be proud of what you worked for and never have that feeling of "why should I care?" Your in the United States Army and you better start caring....(not directed towards you 1LT), but this is towards those who bring down moral....and wonder why it's low....It start's with each Soldier. Then just maybe...moral picks up and spreads? It did in my Unit...Lead by example! 20 years never did I let my uniform go or spit shins...! Hell, I would even train others do them.....
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I understand when soldiers choose not to wear their badges, a friend of mine won't wear them because they remind him of how he got them. That being said system of badges patches is important for the social fabric of the army.
I had a big explanation of why this is but just don't have the time to arrange it right. (Term paper is due)
Bottom line/take away. Senior officers and NCOs who don't have at least a combat patch at the least get a minimum of compliance from me. I know this is wrong but really if you haven't figured out how to be deployed in the past decade then why is your opinion important?
If I have two NCOs one with deployments one without it really is a no brainer .
Is this prejudice? Yes. Do I care? No.
I am still annoyed about the removal of branch insignia from officer uniforms. Yes, combat arms officers get more respect from me.
War is what the army does. Those who have BTDT should be identified.
(My real opinion is that E-7s and O-4s and above without combat patches should be the first people selected for non-retention.)
I had a big explanation of why this is but just don't have the time to arrange it right. (Term paper is due)
Bottom line/take away. Senior officers and NCOs who don't have at least a combat patch at the least get a minimum of compliance from me. I know this is wrong but really if you haven't figured out how to be deployed in the past decade then why is your opinion important?
If I have two NCOs one with deployments one without it really is a no brainer .
Is this prejudice? Yes. Do I care? No.
I am still annoyed about the removal of branch insignia from officer uniforms. Yes, combat arms officers get more respect from me.
War is what the army does. Those who have BTDT should be identified.
(My real opinion is that E-7s and O-4s and above without combat patches should be the first people selected for non-retention.)
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CPT (Join to see)
I agree with what you are saying. I didn't like it when officers lost their branch and really don't like it now that I am an officer. I think the Tab check took it's place for many.
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SPC Travis Grizzard
Do remember inter service transfers though. I had a CSM who didn't wear a combat patch, because it wasn't authorized. in Class As though, his Vietnam Service Ribbon had 3 stars though, and he had a Bronze Star with a "V" device, as well as Silver Star and Purple Heart ribbons.
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CMB and 2 deployments. I don't really wear that stuff except on my dress uniform. I was a great medic, and according to some of my guys I was the best ever. That enough is satisfaction for me. I don't need to wear a badge and some patches to show my competence.
I came back from my 1st deployment a PFC. Never wore my combat patch or CMB. I once had to attend a medic class taught by an NCO about TC3. She tried to make me look stupid during a lesson because I was playing on my phone. I asked her if she had ever done what she was teaching me, in real life. She said no. I told her I did, and I got a cute little pin for it. I just lost it and forgot to buy another one. She never ever messed with me again. I think its sad when lower enlisted have more combat experience then NCO's.
I came back from my 1st deployment a PFC. Never wore my combat patch or CMB. I once had to attend a medic class taught by an NCO about TC3. She tried to make me look stupid during a lesson because I was playing on my phone. I asked her if she had ever done what she was teaching me, in real life. She said no. I told her I did, and I got a cute little pin for it. I just lost it and forgot to buy another one. She never ever messed with me again. I think its sad when lower enlisted have more combat experience then NCO's.
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Suraj Dave Whenever I see a NCO,or even worse a senior NCO, with no combat experience I have to ask myself how did they pull that off. My guard unit is going on it's third deployment soon in the GWOT.
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SFC A.M. Drake
Sir,
You are opening up a can of worms here. I have been in recruiting environment since the war started, I asked/requested six times to be deployed and turned down on all, because I was and still is too good at what I do, so I was providing the strength. So I have not gotten the chance to deploy, so ask me again "How did I pull that off?" and Im sure there are a lot of other soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines in my same boat. Its not for dodging (although your perception states as such)
You are opening up a can of worms here. I have been in recruiting environment since the war started, I asked/requested six times to be deployed and turned down on all, because I was and still is too good at what I do, so I was providing the strength. So I have not gotten the chance to deploy, so ask me again "How did I pull that off?" and Im sure there are a lot of other soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines in my same boat. Its not for dodging (although your perception states as such)
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Maybe I'm old school, but in my early days, you only got sew-on rank when you reached a rank you were happy with and stopped seeking further promotions... With that said, until I get CSM I will not be getting rank sewn on, with the current AR 670-1 I can not sew on my CAB due to Velcro rank. As a maintenance guy, and formerly a cook, I always worried about it potentially falling off contaminating food and now working around batteries and wiring and electronics, metal is not authorized on my uniform, for those reasons I refuse to wear my CAB unless I'm at a formal event.
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CPT (Join to see)
That is one of the oddest things I have heard about ranking being sewn on. I was airborne back in the day and we had to get our stuff sewn on. I am in a mech unit now and still get my badges and rank sewn on. I can't get CPT for a while but when you have your badges and rank sewn on it prevents mishaps and looks for more professional.
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While I tend to agree with you on the qualifications and skill badges, since they represent the culmination of a successful course of training, I am less inclined to say that awards such as the CIN, CAB, RSSIFWS, combat patch, and Purple Heart, set a bad example when they are omitted from a soldiers uniform. For example, I know of many soldiers who refuse to wear their combat patches, because they didn't feel they were earned since the soldier never actually entered a hostile zone, maybe they were in Kuwait during OIF. The CIB and CAB require actual action, but many units awarded every soldier in the unit the award when perhaps only 30% saw actual armed enemy combatants. The Purple Heart is another, often scorned, award that many soldiers refuse to wear, and many even refer to this award as the "enemy marksmanship award" or the "live target" award. I do not intend to devalue these awards or the soldiers who have earned them ; rather, I think it is the individual soldier who feels that they are either unworthy to west the bade, or medal, or they feel that wearing the badge, or medal, somehow disrespects or detracts from the honor bestowed upon the wearer since the feel it was unearned. The EIB course requires top mental and physical skills, as well as months of advanced studying and preparation; whereas, some people feel the CIB is simply handed to "some" soldiers simply because they happen to hold an infantry position. For some soldiers it is not a matter of dishonor or failing their peers by not wearing the awards, etc., granted them. Instead, it is because that soldier does place value on those awards, and the sacrifices many gave in pursuit of the missions that granted those heroes their awards. Anything less than a matching level of sacrifice, to them, anyway, would be a signal to their subordinates and peers that it is okay to besmirch the names and records of those heroes in an attempt to get noticed during a uniform inspection or a Military Ball. Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying here. I have the utmost respect, but I can understand why someone would be inclined to omit some badges or medals from their uniform.
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CPT (Join to see)
I understand what is being said. I would fault the command for doing this. It reminds me of the scene in forest gump when they are in the hospital and one guys gets another PH for a bed sore to add to his collection. But if you don't view yours with any reverence you are not only reducing the value of your award but the award in generally. I can't help but to think of John Kerry throw those military medals he thought were worthless. To him they were. He really didn't deserve them and he might have figured that out. But to the rest of us he threw the Purple Heart Medal, which stood for something.
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There were times particularly in class B's that I did not always wear all my authorized awards- it was just to much. On those times I wore CIB, JM, marksmanship badges- that was enough.
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I for one am I'm very proud to have my CIB. At all in hunting.net you can order a shirt with a CIB on it and wear it proudly. One of my brother's is the one behind it fought with him and I will fight for him.
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