4
4
0
Army Chaplains, Any background on this?
http://www.religionnews.com/2015/07/07/will-thor-join-army-believers-still-limbo/
http://www.religionnews.com/2015/07/07/will-thor-join-army-believers-still-limbo/
Chaplain
Religion
Army
Battalion Chaplain
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
2
2
0
TSgt Joshua Copeland, I've seen a lot of strange things on dog tags over the years. Jedi ... Pastafarian ... Klingon ... Church of the Sub-Genius (praise Bob!) Heck, my own tags say I'm a Reformed Druid. (Texas is not known for trees, so Reformed Druids are allowed to pray to bushes.)
I personally don't think there needs to be Heathen Chaplains, any more than there needs to be Humanist Chaplains, Pastafarian Chaplains, or Reformed Druid Chaplains. Chaplains are trained to give neutral services, and that should be enough. (And no, I am not trivializing people who really do believe in Thor. Just because I'm having fun doesn't mean they are too. Besides, I'm partial to Uller, the god of skiing, archery, hunting, and known to be quite promiscuous.)
Seriously, as long as someone's choice doesn't mean special privileges, or someone else paying so they can have their choice, I see no problem with it. My problem is always with those who claim a choice, but expect me (or perhaps the US taxpayer) to fund their choice.
I personally don't think there needs to be Heathen Chaplains, any more than there needs to be Humanist Chaplains, Pastafarian Chaplains, or Reformed Druid Chaplains. Chaplains are trained to give neutral services, and that should be enough. (And no, I am not trivializing people who really do believe in Thor. Just because I'm having fun doesn't mean they are too. Besides, I'm partial to Uller, the god of skiing, archery, hunting, and known to be quite promiscuous.)
Seriously, as long as someone's choice doesn't mean special privileges, or someone else paying so they can have their choice, I see no problem with it. My problem is always with those who claim a choice, but expect me (or perhaps the US taxpayer) to fund their choice.
(2)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
SPC Joshua Heath, I don't understand what there is to be confused about. As I understand the way the military approves chaplaincies, you have to have a ThM or higher, from a recognized Seminary, which has to have some body in authority over the Seminary. (And who knows - maybe the rules have changed. Maybe an MDiv is acceptable now. But that doesn't change the rest of the requirements.)
You've said over and over that you don't have the recognized Seminary or a body in authority, but that you have some alternative which you think should be accepted. It's fine for you to think that, but it's like sticking your head in the sand to know you don't meet the requirements and think you should get your way regardless.
I understand Alvin York had the same problem. When drafted, he tried to claim as a conscientious objector. His claim was denied, because his church wasn't a part of a recognized denomination. And that's the respect thing. As long as the only think people see of your faith is a small group who meets in your living room to make the sign of the Hammer over their ale, (or would that be mead?) you aren't going to become a denomination.
The path is laid out. All you have to do is follow it, and you'll get your way. But asking for a short cut isn't the way to get respect.
I've said before, and I'll say again. I hope you get a code for your faith. But I don't think that we'll see heathen chaplains any time soon. And I don't think we should, until you have a seminary and a body in authority over it.
You've said over and over that you don't have the recognized Seminary or a body in authority, but that you have some alternative which you think should be accepted. It's fine for you to think that, but it's like sticking your head in the sand to know you don't meet the requirements and think you should get your way regardless.
I understand Alvin York had the same problem. When drafted, he tried to claim as a conscientious objector. His claim was denied, because his church wasn't a part of a recognized denomination. And that's the respect thing. As long as the only think people see of your faith is a small group who meets in your living room to make the sign of the Hammer over their ale, (or would that be mead?) you aren't going to become a denomination.
The path is laid out. All you have to do is follow it, and you'll get your way. But asking for a short cut isn't the way to get respect.
I've said before, and I'll say again. I hope you get a code for your faith. But I don't think that we'll see heathen chaplains any time soon. And I don't think we should, until you have a seminary and a body in authority over it.
(0)
(0)
SPC Joshua Heath
SGM (Join to see) -
"You've said over and over that you don't have the recognized Seminary or a body in authority, but that you have some alternative which you think should be accepted."
Ahh, I see where the confusion is here. We do not have a universal Heathen seminary. That is correct. We do have programs that meet our own religious needs, and that work for us outside of the military context. However, we do have heathens that have done programs that meet the regulations. A soldier shared those with me the other day, I'll pull out the relevant paragraph that refers to the degree required.
DOD Instruction NUMBER 1304.28
6.1.4.
The RMP is educationally qualified for appointment as a chaplain.
The educationally qualified applicant shall possess a baccalaureate degree with not less than 120 semester hours (180 quarter hours) from a qualifying educational institution.
The DoDI 1304.28, June 11, 2004 Change 3,
educationally qualified applicant shall also possess a post baccalaureate graduate degree in the field of theological or related studies from a qualifying educational institution. A qualifying graduate degree program shall require no fewer than 72 semester hours (108 quarter hours) of graduate-level work.
Related studies may include graduate courses in pastoral counseling, social work, religious administration, and similar disciplines when one-half of the earned graduate credits include topics in general religion, world religions, the practice of religion, theology, religious philosophy, religious ethics, and/or the foundational writings from the applicant’s religious tradition.
Again, I'm not asking for anyone to not meet these requirements. We have soldiers that meet them already. No one is asking for a short-cut. We are asking for a faith code.
"You've said over and over that you don't have the recognized Seminary or a body in authority, but that you have some alternative which you think should be accepted."
Ahh, I see where the confusion is here. We do not have a universal Heathen seminary. That is correct. We do have programs that meet our own religious needs, and that work for us outside of the military context. However, we do have heathens that have done programs that meet the regulations. A soldier shared those with me the other day, I'll pull out the relevant paragraph that refers to the degree required.
DOD Instruction NUMBER 1304.28
6.1.4.
The RMP is educationally qualified for appointment as a chaplain.
The educationally qualified applicant shall possess a baccalaureate degree with not less than 120 semester hours (180 quarter hours) from a qualifying educational institution.
The DoDI 1304.28, June 11, 2004 Change 3,
educationally qualified applicant shall also possess a post baccalaureate graduate degree in the field of theological or related studies from a qualifying educational institution. A qualifying graduate degree program shall require no fewer than 72 semester hours (108 quarter hours) of graduate-level work.
Related studies may include graduate courses in pastoral counseling, social work, religious administration, and similar disciplines when one-half of the earned graduate credits include topics in general religion, world religions, the practice of religion, theology, religious philosophy, religious ethics, and/or the foundational writings from the applicant’s religious tradition.
Again, I'm not asking for anyone to not meet these requirements. We have soldiers that meet them already. No one is asking for a short-cut. We are asking for a faith code.
(0)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
SPC Joshua Heath, again I support you getting a faith code. And maybe the regulations have changed well away from what I remember. I did retire a few years ago.
I wonder how many chaplains there are in the Army? If I remember correctly, the force is about 700,000. If I had to guess, I'd figure there must be a fairly small number of chaplains ... perhaps 1000 at the most? Assuming your estimate of heathen numbers is correct, you would reasonably be entitled to ONE for the entire Army. Where would he be stationed? If there are 10 of you at Fort Hood, and 15 at Fort Benning, and 12 at Ft Bragg, who gets served? For that matter, if I am correct and the greatest need is overseas, do we keep him permanently in a combat zone, perhaps flying from one FOB to another with the mail?
Look I'm not trying to change your views or dump on your religion. I'm trying to be a realist. And the reality is that you have to find some way to deal with the very high likelihood that even if you get your own faith code and a single chaplain, your chances of actually seeing him more than once in your military career are quite low. So you'll be back to what you are doing right now, being a lay leader for your faith. Beyond getting a faith code, which I agree with, I don't think things are going to change noticeably.
But whether I'm right, or you are right, or neither of us are right, I have no ability to change things for you. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I wonder how many chaplains there are in the Army? If I remember correctly, the force is about 700,000. If I had to guess, I'd figure there must be a fairly small number of chaplains ... perhaps 1000 at the most? Assuming your estimate of heathen numbers is correct, you would reasonably be entitled to ONE for the entire Army. Where would he be stationed? If there are 10 of you at Fort Hood, and 15 at Fort Benning, and 12 at Ft Bragg, who gets served? For that matter, if I am correct and the greatest need is overseas, do we keep him permanently in a combat zone, perhaps flying from one FOB to another with the mail?
Look I'm not trying to change your views or dump on your religion. I'm trying to be a realist. And the reality is that you have to find some way to deal with the very high likelihood that even if you get your own faith code and a single chaplain, your chances of actually seeing him more than once in your military career are quite low. So you'll be back to what you are doing right now, being a lay leader for your faith. Beyond getting a faith code, which I agree with, I don't think things are going to change noticeably.
But whether I'm right, or you are right, or neither of us are right, I have no ability to change things for you. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
(1)
(0)
SPC Joshua Heath
SGM (Join to see) -
Sure. That Chaplain will be assigned to do his job in a unit, and he'll do it for all soldiers, regardless of their faith, as every Chaplain does. The Army has like 7 Rabbi's, Chaplain Weiss is an excellent example of a Chaplain whom can work with anyone well. I think that is an excellent role model for any Chaplain of a minority faith to follow.
The faith code is the goal. The Chaplain thing is an outcome of the goal, not a goal in itself.
Whoever is in charge of the request, I hope stumbles across this thread and approves it. That's all I'm saying. :-)
Sure. That Chaplain will be assigned to do his job in a unit, and he'll do it for all soldiers, regardless of their faith, as every Chaplain does. The Army has like 7 Rabbi's, Chaplain Weiss is an excellent example of a Chaplain whom can work with anyone well. I think that is an excellent role model for any Chaplain of a minority faith to follow.
The faith code is the goal. The Chaplain thing is an outcome of the goal, not a goal in itself.
Whoever is in charge of the request, I hope stumbles across this thread and approves it. That's all I'm saying. :-)
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
SGT (Join to see)-
You and I seem to have a very different view of what Heathenry allows, and doesn't allow.
You and I seem to have a very different view of what Heathenry allows, and doesn't allow.
(1)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
I never said anything about allow. in fact I know nothing that it truly forbids, but that is another discussion. My questions was why is recognition (from the Army) important to you?
(0)
(0)
SPC Joshua Heath
SGT (Join to see) -
That is a good question. It is important to me for several reasons. One, it is important because it helps support the religious rights of heathens in the future (you can see the article for some of the items this request will touch). Two, I began this request assuming it would be a simple paperwork request that would be immediately approved since it didn't negatively impact anyone. In the 6 years we've been pushing this, its become a personal mission to make this change happen. When given a task, and the tools to complete the task, I will do everything possible to finish that task.
That is a good question. It is important to me for several reasons. One, it is important because it helps support the religious rights of heathens in the future (you can see the article for some of the items this request will touch). Two, I began this request assuming it would be a simple paperwork request that would be immediately approved since it didn't negatively impact anyone. In the 6 years we've been pushing this, its become a personal mission to make this change happen. When given a task, and the tools to complete the task, I will do everything possible to finish that task.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google