Posted on Nov 7, 2015
How can the AF improve preparing SrA for the NCO tier?
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Since 2003 when promotion rates increased dramatically, SrA began to be pipelined through Airman Leadership School and instantly began taking on new responsibilities over night. How might in your opinion can the AF improve the preparation of SrA to the NCO tier. I was fortunate that I attended ALS as an Airman without a line for SSgt, but others are not as fortunate and are transformed literally over months without allot of working experience of the responsibility they now have. Would adding Buck Sergeant back help? Looking for mostly positive feed back on how the transition could be improved for future generations.
Promotions
Leadership
Training
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 8
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The first thing the Air Force must do is give the young men and women the opportunity to learn from experience leaders and give them the room to lead and make mistakes so that they can learn from them.
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SSgt (Join to see)
IMO you will not be able to accomplish that in a program. The Culture in the Air Force is to diverse. The ability to work and mentor, as well as the way you work and mentor; not only varies from base to base, but also from career field to career field. In my experiences I have seen this situation in Logistics Readiness Squadrons quite a bit, because they have some many different career fields in one unit. Though it sounds like a bad thing, sometimes it is a good thing that the mindset is different.
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SSgt Alex Robinson
SSgt (Join to see) - Mentorship requires an open mind on behalf of the mentor and the mentee. It can be done, but it takes effort, and open mind, and desire. In my time in the military I learned from many people who are not in my specialty code.
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SSgt (Join to see)
That is true, but not all the time, and not all of it can be applied in one program. I as well have had many mentors from various career fields. But, when comes time to be mentored on my job, I have had no better mentors than those who have worked my job/career field.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I think we could start by not giving out E-3 for signing your name. Everyone comes in E-1 regardless. Then you can positively identify how long someone has been in. This will also add value to the ranks which at the moment E1-E4 are treated as equals. I agree with bringing back the buck Sgt as well. Not everyone wants to be a leader and we should allow them to be a SME so they don't poison their subordinates. Those who want to lead should be given the opportunity and sent to ALS as soon as they make E4. I also agree that if we learn the most from our mistakes then how will we ever learn in a one mistake Air Force. We need a little less micromanagement and empower our younger guys with tasks while mentoring them along the way.
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I don't know that a systemic change would be the answer. IMO it would take a cultural change in the current NCO/SNCO corps to really effect what you're suggesting. The answer is in your question. "transformed literally over months without allot of working experience of the responsibility they now have". So give them that ecperience! The cultural change I think would have the most effect is NCOs and SNCOs not being afraid to answer for their subordinates' (inevitable) failures in the name of mentoring and preparing those Senior Airmen to be NCOs. Put them in charge of a project. Put them in charge of younger Airmen. Expect them to fail. They will. Then make them fix it and make sure they learn from it. The benefit is threefold. They learn how not to make that mistake when it counts, how to anticipate younger Airmen making the same mistake and head it off, and how to fix that mistake when it happens again. Right now there's a general sense from junior enlisted that their enlisted leaders will throw them under the bus for making a mistake. And it's not unfounded. It's our job as NCOs to step up and take care of our people, and as a whole we haven't been doing a great job at it.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
As you know as well as I do, ALS was intended for SrA without a line number to prepare them for the next level and to be supervising and gaining the working experience before they promote to the next level as the transition is easier to adapt too as you have already been doing parts of the responsibility. How can the AF foster more of an active role in implicating the intended point of ALS instead of pipelining them through and then expecting results?
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TSgt (Join to see)
I don't understand what you're asking.
It sounds like you're saying that Senior Airmen should come out of ALS ready to be NCOs, but they're not; what can the AF do to fix that?
Is that right?
It sounds like you're saying that Senior Airmen should come out of ALS ready to be NCOs, but they're not; what can the AF do to fix that?
Is that right?
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
No, sir I'm saying that how can the AF fix the preparation for SrA to become efficient NCO when ALS is pipelining them through as soon as they make SSgt instead of targeting SrA before they have a line number, getting them through the training, assigning and hold them accountable as a SrA and then when they make SSgt all it is is a pay increase and responsibilities, I've seen too often where the AF is putting lower Airman and newly promoted SSgt's in trouble by not preparing them for the role that they will take on and instilling in them the leadership and understanding of the position they now carry. How can the AF as a whole and not as squadron or sections prepare all SrA to be an NCO as it was intended. Due to the changes in promotion rates, slots for ALS were for only SrA with line numbers, if this is to be the standard now how can the AF prepare SrA for this role i.e. pre-training school or courses like once a month that are mandatory. Just something to help them be better prepared, because a under prepared supervisor breeds bad results to everything. Hope that helps, sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your response
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TSgt (Join to see)
Thanks for the clarification. I don't think we're on the same page as far as where the responsibility lies to prepare SrA to be NCOs. PME is commonly called "reblueing" but I think of it as "rechambering". Rechamber a rifle to a higher caliber, you get the same results with more power at a higher range.
I'm standing by my original response, that it's up to NCOs to prepare our SrA. But if I had to come up with an AF level program to make that happen, it would be an intermediate level PME that focuses on teaching young NCOs how to mentor Airmen, recognize their strengths and weaknesses, and teach them when and how to place their Airmen in situations they can gain the best experience from. Something like "Know your Airmen 101".
I know you're asking from a standardized-across-the-AF standpoint, but when it comes to the level of responsibility, accountability, and technical expertise of NCOs; AFSC, Squadron/unit mission, ops tempo, etc. always come into play. An outstanding NCO in your AFSC may be a lousy one in mine, and vice-versa. A top-notch Airman at a duty station that doesn't deploy very often could be ready for NCO duties where they are, but a PCS to a high ops tempo assignment might put them right back at the bottom of the stack, and it's up to the NCOs in that new environment to get them ready in their new environment. We should give those NCOs the tools they need to prepare the SrA where they are. The younger the better.
I'm standing by my original response, that it's up to NCOs to prepare our SrA. But if I had to come up with an AF level program to make that happen, it would be an intermediate level PME that focuses on teaching young NCOs how to mentor Airmen, recognize their strengths and weaknesses, and teach them when and how to place their Airmen in situations they can gain the best experience from. Something like "Know your Airmen 101".
I know you're asking from a standardized-across-the-AF standpoint, but when it comes to the level of responsibility, accountability, and technical expertise of NCOs; AFSC, Squadron/unit mission, ops tempo, etc. always come into play. An outstanding NCO in your AFSC may be a lousy one in mine, and vice-versa. A top-notch Airman at a duty station that doesn't deploy very often could be ready for NCO duties where they are, but a PCS to a high ops tempo assignment might put them right back at the bottom of the stack, and it's up to the NCOs in that new environment to get them ready in their new environment. We should give those NCOs the tools they need to prepare the SrA where they are. The younger the better.
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I think bringing back sergeant as a rank would help give us that experience. Transitioning from SrA to SSgt at the moment is very abrupt, because we're not really given legitimate situations that can prepare us for the NCO responsibilities. Leading groups and volunteer activities, etc. help with leadership, but not with fully experiencing the responsibility. I've done many things in leadership roles, and yet I still feel sort of unprepared to take on the role of SSgt. Not that I don't think I can handle it. I just think it's a different situation than minor leadership roles. If not making the rank of sergeant, at least allowing promising SrA one subordinate to prepare, as a possibility. It's not too much to handle, but gives enough experience to know what one is getting into.
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Bring back the rank of Sgt. to indicate and give them a better visible transition to the NCO Corps.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
I agree sir, something like a padding you might say to prepare them when they take on the next role they are used to it, I mean depending on your AFSC jumping from SrA to SSgt can be a huge role difference or even just more accountability, I think if we want solid leaders of the future it's our duty to prepare them as earliest as possible so that they can make mistakes and learn from them but not have their mistakes be so impacting that it destroys their career or those under them. Thank you for your response.
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I felt like a lot of what I learned at ALS could have been taught much sooner. Seriously - with the new Capstone, what's the point of FTAC where you have the briefings? There was very little "inprocessing" which is the point of FTAC. I was at my base for almost two months by time I went to FTAC. Some of the stuff I learned in ALS could have been taught then.
Now, I attended with no line number, but then again I hit HYT as a SrA a year later. I'm not going to beat myself up over it, but it was what it was. Could I have done more? Sure, but no regrets.
Anyway, How about adding more ALS classes and/or expanding class sizes? Some bases push people through with no line number, and others wait unt il you have one, or a month before you put on. I think having ALS sooner, at a set period, like 1 year TiG as a SrA would be a great idea. That way if they are a slow burner, they get experience as SrA to be supervisors. Some AFSC's are NCO top heavy it will be very rare in most cases to supervise as a SrA with ALS, but I am sure something can be worked out.
Now, I attended with no line number, but then again I hit HYT as a SrA a year later. I'm not going to beat myself up over it, but it was what it was. Could I have done more? Sure, but no regrets.
Anyway, How about adding more ALS classes and/or expanding class sizes? Some bases push people through with no line number, and others wait unt il you have one, or a month before you put on. I think having ALS sooner, at a set period, like 1 year TiG as a SrA would be a great idea. That way if they are a slow burner, they get experience as SrA to be supervisors. Some AFSC's are NCO top heavy it will be very rare in most cases to supervise as a SrA with ALS, but I am sure something can be worked out.
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When the AF increased promotion rates and that in turn lowered TIS for upcoming Airmen , purposely or not, we simply changed our promotion system to match the other branches of the military. I have worked extensively with great Army and Navy leaders and a little with great leaders from the Marines. They have all been promoted to assume NCO responsibilities at the same rate as our current Airmen. There is no need to go back to slow rolling everyone's career.
Many times we as leaders fail to empower our subordinates because we believe our subordinates are too young and can't handle the responsibility. In my experience when leadership teams put aside their own fears and empower SSgt's or even SrA in charge of a project they get one of three responses. An outstanding product because this NCO understands leadership and is proficient in their job. Frustration because the NCO doesn't even know the basics of their job and in turn can't lead. Lastly someone that lacks the qualities it takes to be a good leader and has not been held responsible so they do nothing (very rare). These three responses will always remain it is how we perceive them and handle them as a leader that needs to change.
Example number one great job NCO! Leadership will continue to challenge and develop you so you can take over our job one day. Example number two provide additional direction and education on the skills needed to accomplish the task. Provide counseling on where their development as a leader should be. Let them know leadership will be watching their development and if needed we will provide additional corrective counseling and/or action if the situation requires. Example number three spend some time figuring out why they no longer care and try to develop a plan to re-motivate them. Remind them that they have an obligation to perform that includes consequences for their actions if they continue their substandard behavior. Follow up with action as necessary. Most importantly if either of the two unsuccessful Airmen begin to make strides in the right direction provide positive reinforcement as they move closer to the response of the first NCO. In my opinion it takes a team of leaders not just one!
The change in our promotion system and the new EPR are an attempt to allow NCO's and SNCO's the ability to use the tools they were given without overly impacting the career of those Airman that are held accountable but still deserve a shot. Lets face it, what we have been doing is broken so why is everyone so skeptical about a new system. Accept and adapt to the new culture where it is set up for you to be able to recover from a misstep much easier and will not take a career of "firewall 5's" to get promoted. If we promote 22% and only 5% are getting 5 EPR's doesn't that mean that people that are getting 4's and possibly 3's on their EPRs will get promoted.
Our leadership has given us the opportunity to start the cultural change that is needed to develop these 4 year SSgt's into leaders. It is our responsibility to swallow our pride and accept the fact that we are not all firewall 5's year in and year out. Before anyone asks yes I have received 5's on all my EPR's and no I didn't deserve them all just like many others. And just like many others (myself included) my supervisors saw something in me and didn't want our old system to cripple my chances so they made a conscience decision to inflate the system. Finally we have a system where we can give an Airman that had a few missteps a 3 or a 4 on their EPR and it will only take 1 or 2 years instead of the 4 or 5 years it took their predecessors to overcome. We have a chance to change that mentality but the longer we hold to our past culture and go around telling the younger Airmen that only 5's get promoted the less likely we are to influence that change, and the less likely we are to be effective at building leaders.
It takes time and dedication by a team of NCO's and SNCO's to build the next generation of leaders. Just my opinion.
Many times we as leaders fail to empower our subordinates because we believe our subordinates are too young and can't handle the responsibility. In my experience when leadership teams put aside their own fears and empower SSgt's or even SrA in charge of a project they get one of three responses. An outstanding product because this NCO understands leadership and is proficient in their job. Frustration because the NCO doesn't even know the basics of their job and in turn can't lead. Lastly someone that lacks the qualities it takes to be a good leader and has not been held responsible so they do nothing (very rare). These three responses will always remain it is how we perceive them and handle them as a leader that needs to change.
Example number one great job NCO! Leadership will continue to challenge and develop you so you can take over our job one day. Example number two provide additional direction and education on the skills needed to accomplish the task. Provide counseling on where their development as a leader should be. Let them know leadership will be watching their development and if needed we will provide additional corrective counseling and/or action if the situation requires. Example number three spend some time figuring out why they no longer care and try to develop a plan to re-motivate them. Remind them that they have an obligation to perform that includes consequences for their actions if they continue their substandard behavior. Follow up with action as necessary. Most importantly if either of the two unsuccessful Airmen begin to make strides in the right direction provide positive reinforcement as they move closer to the response of the first NCO. In my opinion it takes a team of leaders not just one!
The change in our promotion system and the new EPR are an attempt to allow NCO's and SNCO's the ability to use the tools they were given without overly impacting the career of those Airman that are held accountable but still deserve a shot. Lets face it, what we have been doing is broken so why is everyone so skeptical about a new system. Accept and adapt to the new culture where it is set up for you to be able to recover from a misstep much easier and will not take a career of "firewall 5's" to get promoted. If we promote 22% and only 5% are getting 5 EPR's doesn't that mean that people that are getting 4's and possibly 3's on their EPRs will get promoted.
Our leadership has given us the opportunity to start the cultural change that is needed to develop these 4 year SSgt's into leaders. It is our responsibility to swallow our pride and accept the fact that we are not all firewall 5's year in and year out. Before anyone asks yes I have received 5's on all my EPR's and no I didn't deserve them all just like many others. And just like many others (myself included) my supervisors saw something in me and didn't want our old system to cripple my chances so they made a conscience decision to inflate the system. Finally we have a system where we can give an Airman that had a few missteps a 3 or a 4 on their EPR and it will only take 1 or 2 years instead of the 4 or 5 years it took their predecessors to overcome. We have a chance to change that mentality but the longer we hold to our past culture and go around telling the younger Airmen that only 5's get promoted the less likely we are to influence that change, and the less likely we are to be effective at building leaders.
It takes time and dedication by a team of NCO's and SNCO's to build the next generation of leaders. Just my opinion.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
I agree sir, but my concern is how to implement this as a whole, I've had two great supervisors in my 15 years, some people have 10 or none, how to we re-enforce the culture change that as an NCO you need to be preparing your personnel for greater leadership and responsibilities, could it be a mandatory pre-ALS training conducted once a quarter within a squadron or through PME, just something that to me allows a SrA to be a supervisor over someone and have the leadership over them to guide them through the process, to let them fail but not have to failures be so impacting that they destroy someone else's career?
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SMSgt (Join to see)
If we start giving SrA subordinates then the question will be how do we prepare these two and three year SrA to be leaders before they receive subordinates. You can challenge SrA to lead without giving them subordinates. Have them lead team projects or projects that take coordination with other organizations. Part of developing leaders is follow up and coaching. Through utilizing these skills you can allow people to struggle but provide the support needed before failure impacts mission accomplishment. It's OK to lose the battle as long as we don't lose the war.
I do not believe there is a training program that is going to force people to be good leaders. At the end of the day it is a personal choice each and every person will make for themselves. The tools are provided in various types of PME, professional development organizations, personal development opportunities, and mentorship programs that are already provided. The original intent behind acknowledging these activities in an EPR or 1206 submission was the assumption that the individual would take the information learned and apply it to their lives. Unfortunately volunteerism, involvement in professional organizations, and personal/professional development became a check the box program and there was never any importance placed on application of the knowledge learned. The only way I see to place that importance is for NCO's and SNCO's to honestly evaluate their subordinates to see if these new skills are being put into application and bettering their organizations.
I have heard the excuse that because someone is good at their particular craft that they are a good Airman and we don't want to hurt their career. There are a bunch of Organizations where being good at your skill is more than enough to make a good living. Unfortunately the military is not one of them and it takes more than just being good at your skill. Don't get me wrong turning wrenches or whatever your skill may be is important but so is professionalism, core values, and leadership potential. We need to hold ourselves and our subordinates accountable for performance or lack there of in all areas.
I don't think it starts with a training program I think it starts with personal buy in and accountability to the institution not individuals. I am fairly confident that if we all took a look in the mirror we could identify some areas where we can improve and by doing that for ourselves we can hone our skills in honesty and be able to provide the same type of feedback to our peers and subordinates. There is no way to force someone to be a good leader, all we can do is lead to the best of our abilities, and continue to challenge and share information with our peers and subordinates. Hopefully in the process we will influence others to follow suit and we can start the journey to where we want to be as an Air Force.
Short answer there is no quick fix but you obviously have a desire to be a good leader and that is what it will take for you to influence the change in many of the Airmen around you. Don't be discouraged by the "this is the real Air Force" types and you will be one of those leaders that others look at as a good leader.
I do not believe there is a training program that is going to force people to be good leaders. At the end of the day it is a personal choice each and every person will make for themselves. The tools are provided in various types of PME, professional development organizations, personal development opportunities, and mentorship programs that are already provided. The original intent behind acknowledging these activities in an EPR or 1206 submission was the assumption that the individual would take the information learned and apply it to their lives. Unfortunately volunteerism, involvement in professional organizations, and personal/professional development became a check the box program and there was never any importance placed on application of the knowledge learned. The only way I see to place that importance is for NCO's and SNCO's to honestly evaluate their subordinates to see if these new skills are being put into application and bettering their organizations.
I have heard the excuse that because someone is good at their particular craft that they are a good Airman and we don't want to hurt their career. There are a bunch of Organizations where being good at your skill is more than enough to make a good living. Unfortunately the military is not one of them and it takes more than just being good at your skill. Don't get me wrong turning wrenches or whatever your skill may be is important but so is professionalism, core values, and leadership potential. We need to hold ourselves and our subordinates accountable for performance or lack there of in all areas.
I don't think it starts with a training program I think it starts with personal buy in and accountability to the institution not individuals. I am fairly confident that if we all took a look in the mirror we could identify some areas where we can improve and by doing that for ourselves we can hone our skills in honesty and be able to provide the same type of feedback to our peers and subordinates. There is no way to force someone to be a good leader, all we can do is lead to the best of our abilities, and continue to challenge and share information with our peers and subordinates. Hopefully in the process we will influence others to follow suit and we can start the journey to where we want to be as an Air Force.
Short answer there is no quick fix but you obviously have a desire to be a good leader and that is what it will take for you to influence the change in many of the Airmen around you. Don't be discouraged by the "this is the real Air Force" types and you will be one of those leaders that others look at as a good leader.
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Never saw ALS as something that helped me become an NCO. With higher promotion rates SSgt is the new SrA in most careers. The idea of a buck sgt is a SrA with added responsibility that can supervise a section... Hmmmm sounds like a SSgt to me.
As to better prepare them for added responsibility, ALS is not the answer. Good supervision and OJT is one part... Mentoring from senior leadership to provide leadership examples is the other. Hard to lead when you suck at your job, but you can't lead even if you rock at your job but have no leadership ability. Once again ALS for a month does no develop that... Honestly most the time leadership is developed within a person not trained.
As to better prepare them for added responsibility, ALS is not the answer. Good supervision and OJT is one part... Mentoring from senior leadership to provide leadership examples is the other. Hard to lead when you suck at your job, but you can't lead even if you rock at your job but have no leadership ability. Once again ALS for a month does no develop that... Honestly most the time leadership is developed within a person not trained.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
But ALS does qualify a SrA to now start supervising, if the majority of slots are only available for those with line numbers how can they get the pre-training and experience and guidance ahead of time to allow them a curve until they make SSgt?
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TSgt (Join to see)
I did not come out of ALS better prepared to supervise, it's a box the AF wants checked prior to you becoming an official supervisor. ALS does not provide anything meaningful in experience or guidance for supervision. Supervision is learned over time and some people are gifted leaders other are flat out garbage and there is nothing that can be done about that. A one month class does not create a supervisor, that's just silly.
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Actually 2000 (50.7%) was the first year of the "Great Staff Giveaway". I know this because I missed it by 10 points. Ironically, I missed it by 10 points in 1999 (36.39%) also. The rates used to hover around 17%. In fact my very first year testing (1995), if I would have scored 100 on both tests, I wold have missed it by 13 points. Back then the average TIS to make SSgt was 7.5 years. When I finally made it (2001, 8.5 yrs) I was ready for SSgt. I was well seasoned because I had seen a lot of dumb shit and I had done a lot of dumb shit. The best thing the AF can do for these young Airmen is slow down the promotion rates and fix the promotion system. It starts with the EPR. Remove the points from WAPS and you will see accurate ratings.
The new system with quotas and DSD will destroy morale. Lets say SrA Snuffy is hot shit, is deserving of a 5, and gets it. Only the best of the best are supposed to get DSD'd. Now lets say he gets DSD'd to become an instructor. Lets say he is still a good instructor but doesn't make the cut on quotas for a 5 EPR. He now has a disadvantage compared to the guys that weren't DSD'd.
The new system with quotas and DSD will destroy morale. Lets say SrA Snuffy is hot shit, is deserving of a 5, and gets it. Only the best of the best are supposed to get DSD'd. Now lets say he gets DSD'd to become an instructor. Lets say he is still a good instructor but doesn't make the cut on quotas for a 5 EPR. He now has a disadvantage compared to the guys that weren't DSD'd.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
I agree sir, I was the same as you but I purposely did not make SSgt until I felt that I was ready, I wanted as you say "to be seasoned" make mistakes as a SrA, learn from them and then press on and I was fortunate to attend ALS without a line number but there are some many that either don't get that experience or are just pipelined through and now their controlling someones else's growth and career when they barely have a grasp on theirs. That's a bad way to promote future leaders, they need more than one milestone in their career to understand the diverse role an NCO plays and if we are not preparing them with the experience then we shouldn't be shocked when the AF changes in a way we were not expecting. Thank you for your response and opinion.
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