Posted on Apr 3, 2014
LTC Yinon Weiss
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Given the recent active shooter tragedy that happened at Fort Hood, how do you believe the military should best respond to help prevent future events from happening, and also casualties should they happen?
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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<p>Major Weiss,</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>As a concealed carry holder i am most vulnerable on a Military installation. The military requires us to carry weapons with rounds while deployed, but when we get stateside they want to take that away from Soldiers. Why is this? The trust us overseas, but do not trust us on American soil? I do not think that that is right. </p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;If there was a concealed weapons carrier on Ft Hood, back in 2009, maybe there would have been less Soldiers that were killed and wounded. Yesterday if there was a concealed weapons carrier that was in the area, there might have been less Soldiers that were killed and wounded. We would never know because we do not have that Second Ammendment right on Military installations. </p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If i were on Ft Hood and I was able to draw my weapon, i would have observed the situation, and then made my decision on who was the next one that i am taking out. As responsible gun owners, we train, train, train, train. I think that if the Military was able to carry on Military installations, then there would be less active shooters on the installations. If you agree or not, i do not care, it is my opinion and my 2nd Amendment Right to keep and bear Arms. However i encourage your comments.</p>
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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10 y
First of all SSG Flynn,

No one is going to tell me where i can store MY POW. They didnt pay for them so they are not going to store them. Second of all, why do we have safety stand down? Does that prevent a Soldier from doing something stupid? NO it does not. It is just another way to mitigate risks. So by your logical thinking, if  a person owns a car, they should store it at the Post facility and should have to sign it out anytime they want to use it? Oh and by the way owning a weapon is a right, not a priviledge, like driving is.
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Maj Walter Kilar
Maj Walter Kilar
10 y
Again this conversation is going to the extremes. There are plenty of workplaces in America where employees are legally carrying concealed weapons into the office, warehouse, or whatever--and there is no epidemic of workplace shootings. One would hope that an American Soldier, Sailor, Marine or (maybe) Airman would be better trained and in better mental state than most citizens to legally bring a concealed weapon to work. If we are not better equipped to bring concealed weapons on a military installation, then we have more serious problems. 


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CPT S2 X Intelligence
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10 y

This is a much more difficult question than carrying a weapon.  It is indeed true people are capable of doing the greatest harm where others are defenseless.  Yet, we still gather in church and go to the PX. 
I'm not a gun-nut, nor am I a peace-at-any-price wimp. I am a believer in training.  And I believe in our servicemembers.

We are trained to go out an break things and kill people - if you were looking at it from a video game point of view.  The biggest problem is that we are all different in our ability to cope with stress.  What may be traumatic to one person may be like water off a duck's back to another. I'll wager good money that most of my Air Force brethren who've served with Marines in the combat zone have found them to be callous, if not down right mean when it comes to human life. The degrees of meaness and such vary - and as a MCRD survivor I truly believe it's because of training. 

Marines are taught to go into combat - the same as the Army. Only, our leaders forget we have to come home.  They forget about it during indoctrination because it probably doesn't work to create the kind of people needed to win wars.  I'm not a psychologist either - however, I am positive there is a culture difference between the military and the rest of the American population - otherwise, why would we call them civilians?

Most of you are very well aware of the resources available for PTSD, suicide prevention, sexual assaults, EEO complaints - we even have Yellow Ribbon events to welcome troops home.

Yet again - we are all different. 

I needed to be verbally abused by one of my best friends and mentors before I could admit to "having an issue" with PTSD.  I was certainly not in combat - according to the Army or the Marine Corps.  Yet, I was there too.  And like many of us, I worked until the job was done and then went and worked some more because the job was never done.

The point is that coming back was traumatic for those who came before us - and they were tough men and women (they came back too).  They did their share of bad things too - we just didn't have the 24 hour news cycle like we do now.  Coming home now is just as traumatic - we cannot go jumping into a war expecting bodybags and not expecting our men and women back who bloodied the other side far more than they bloodied us. 

A former manager of mine started crying during a meeting with me.  She said she was so upset by the video of all the children who had died in the Syrian chemical attacks.  In virtually the same breath she said she wished WE would go over there and do SOMETHING about it.

I looked at her and said, "So, you'd rather see my son dead?  He's 21 and wanting to follow in my footsteps.  And what about me?  I'm still in the National Guard."

Needless to say, she's not my manager anymore.

My friends - guns are not the problem - train me to carry a gun out in the open - give me a nice band to put on my hat or wear like a PT belt - And also make sure I have the other tools I need to solve my internal problems without turning to the weapon at my side.

Just my two cents.  

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SSG Aircraft Mechanic
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Overseas they can call it hostile fire and sweep it under the rug.
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1SG Shane Hansen
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I also think that the mental screening process prior to entry into the military needs to be examined for improvements.
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SGT First Officer
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Simple...allow military personnel to carry openly or concealed on base. Issue will stop overnight.
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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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Not stop over night, i don't understand why people think arming people will stop the killing.  Our enemies don't stop killing because everybody is armed.  It's absolutely stupid to think that because you are armed that I who is confident in my ability to kill would be persuaded not to because you carry a weapon, no, I can and will kill you.  Is this not the mentality we all have when we engage our enemies?
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SFC Behavioral Health Specialist
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1SG Hansen, I would even go one further and say that there should be a screening every couple of years as mind states and life situations may change.

 

SSgt Fair, it is somewhat deterrance, but moreso the ability of one to protect themselves.

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SGT Power Generation Equipment Repairer
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1SG I agree that civilians trying to become soldiers get better screened or get put threw a stress test. There are a lot of people that start falling out during and after basic at thier new units and even more before deployments and during it. And I believe it's a mental thing that can be found and help weed these people out before they enter service. But additional screening and follow ups need to be done for soldiers that have been threw combat.
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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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<div>For you Soldiers, Sailors, and Airman, does your organization practice something similar to this?<br></div><div><br></div>A lot of you are talking about arming your personnel. &nbsp;This is what the Marine Corps does, at Camp Pendleton, CA for example there are all these small Camps that are controlled by units. &nbsp;Each unit provides bodies for camp guard which are armed personnel who patrol the the unit's camp and provide security to the armory and classified stuff. &nbsp;On top of that, each unit on the Camp has an Officer on Duty and an assistant. &nbsp;Typically these are SNCO's and Officers and they are always armed. &nbsp;Any type of active shooting incident that would occur anywhere on a Marine Corps installation will be quickly stopped because we not only have Military Police and it's SWAT, but we have Camp Guard, and we have SNCO's and Officers on duty who are armed 24/7. &nbsp; &nbsp;
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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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Those are specified targets the Marine had for a specific reason, not a careless shooting spree killing those who they didnt know.  There are a lot of service members killing specific people, that's a separate topic here.
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CPT All Source Intelligence
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But in truth, carrying weapons won't mitigate targeted shootings, and targeted shootings are the vast majority of non-accidental shootings.  Knowing that the people you want to shoot are armed just means you have to use different tactics, not that it will not happen.
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Maj Walter Kilar
Maj Walter Kilar
10 y
I would relate defense to first aid. In combat, we teach our military members that the first line of defense in medical care lies within each and every military member. Sure, we have professional medics and doctors, but before the pros arrive it is up to us to take care of ourselves if wounded in combat, and to take care of our battle buddies. When it comes to defense in an active shooter situation on a military base, we are stripped of our responsibility, authorization, and tools required to defend ourselves and our neighbors. I am supposed to wait on base security to come and rescue me from an active shooter, knowing that the security detachment on base is undermanned, over-tasked, under-budget, and losing people every day to the RIF and back-filling people leaving due to the RIF? 


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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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And that is why I believe more focus on caring for our personnel Ma'am than trying to arm more bodies. However having more personnel knowingly armed could decrease the possibilities of mass shooting and maybe targeted shooting but will never eliminate it.  
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How can the military best reduce active shooter threats (like Fort Hood)?
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PO1 Admin
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In the Submarine Force, it is common to remove a Sailor from sub duty and have them screened for mental health issues.&nbsp; I've personnally processed approx 20 Sailors out of the Navy in a 3 year period for these issues.&nbsp; The Sub Force does it right in my opinion.&nbsp; They quickly identify the issues, offer the member assistance and remove them from the situation that caused the issue, then process them out if they don't make progress or miss appointments.&nbsp; I've seen the process take as little as a few weeks, up to a few months but seems to be much quicker and more decisive than other forces/branches.
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GySgt Technical Directive Program Coordinator
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That sounds like doing it right to me. I think one of the hardest things to do beyond identifying an issue, is addressing that issue to get to the root cause of it. Noticing a service member's change in behavior is one thing, but actually saying something about it to that individual isn't always the easiest thing to do.
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PO1 Admin
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It gets a lot easier when you have the right people working the issues.  We used to do a meeting once a week to discuss possible problems.  We also fostered an atmosphere where service members knew they could talk to someone, whether that be the Chaplain, a Doc, or the Chief of the Boat.  There were a lot of cases where the member was seen, worked out the issues, and was able to be put back on the boat (of course if he didn't need to be on any psychotropic medications). 
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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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Soldiers are trusted with firearms while overseas. If they possess a registered firearm and licensed to carry (as per the state's laws) then allow Soldiers to carry on post. Stop this BS about responding to active shooters by hiding and waiting for a response team. How is that in keeping with the Army Values and the Warrior Ethos?! An active shooter is an enemy combatant, treat him as such.
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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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Allow Soldiers with a CCL that is valid in that state to carry on post!&nbsp; I honestly believe this would act as both a detterent and as a supplemental force that could address an active shooter incident much more rapidly than the current 10+ minute response time.
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1SG Shane Hansen
1SG Shane Hansen
10 y
Sir, in my opinion, I am not against concealed carry, I have my CCL and do carry.  I would prefer "open carry" as a better deterrent though.  Have you given any though to open carry?
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
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1SG,<div>IMO, Concealed is a better deterrent than Open. Reason being, with Open - you know who is armed, and can adjust accordingly pretty easily. With Concealed, ANYONE might be armed. It raises the uncertainty of the (potential) attacker.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Nothing against Open, think it's fine. Concealed is just a better deterrent. Of course, nothing wrong with a mix.&nbsp;</div>
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SFC Physical Security Program Manager
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I see a lot of people want to arm soldiers, those that have valid CCL license. I do not believe this is the right course of action. It is not a popular opinion but I base it off 20 years experience as a Military Policeman.

Scenario: A call comes in Active shooter in Bldg X on Post Y. Description of shooter is caucasion male wearing ACUs. Military Police respond enter Bldg X. They are moving down the hall to neutralize the shooter, around the corner comes SSG Snuffy who is a Caucasian male who is wearing ACUs. As he rounds the corner with his weapon up, he is also attempting to find and neutralize the shooter. The military police enter see this and fire killing SSG Snuffy. Is it the MPs fault? No, they are going to react. If that weapon is pointed in a threating manner that MP is going to have to make a split second decision that will have consequences for the rest of his/her life.

Is it SSG Snuffy's fault? No, because if he has been authorized to carry concealed he will be within his limit of his authorities. But he will be deceased none the less. 

For individuals to carry concealed on the installation there is going to have to be some serious vetting processes, to the extent you may meet state requirements but not federal requirements.  There will be areas that have to be thoroughly explored such as if that service member has been treated for PTSD, TBI and/or any other mental condition they would be automatically disqualified from carrying concealed.

There is no easy answer to this question, it will never have the "right" answer either. We as leaders can only ensure we are doing our due diligence in ensuring our soldiers are being looked after mentally and getting the help they need if they need it, and also training our units shelter in place and active shooter drills til it becomes second nature.
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SSG Military Police
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SFC Davenport,

 

I see where you are coming from with this scenario but if you have a CCL and you are clearing a building looking for a threat then you are wrong.  Having a CCL does not authorize you to "respond' to a situation and begin clearing a building.  Now if you happen to be in the same room as the shooter and are able to neutralize the threat wihtout causing any collateral damage then by all means go for it.

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SFC Physical Security Program Manager
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SSG Sabinash, SGT V, I agree with your assessment of the CCL holder understanding that they are not authorized to "clear" a building and giving intel on the shooters where abouts and who has "sheltered in place", however medics and CLS would and should not be moving about to treat injuries until the shooter has been neutralized. <br><br>However we all know there are a plethora of "those guys" who want to be Johnny on the Spot and stop the shooter. Its those small numbers of personnel that would make this hard to sell to the powers that be. <br><br>Although I think arming responsible vetted personnel on an installation is a honest conversation our leadership and civilian leadership need to have.
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SFC Physical Security Program Manager
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SGT V. I think a way ahead for the future would be designated unit POCs, SDNCOs/SDOs and CQ NCOIC that have the authority to coordinate this type of response and drilled to exhaustion. It could work, I think it could but it would be a process that individuals would be vetted, trained and then vetted and retrained again. Just for redundancy and safeties sake. But this is a good forum from these type of ideas to be discussed.
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SGT Kevin Adams
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From what I have seen in regards to this shooting and the other shootings that have happen it is all due to the shooter being mentally unstable. I think the country really needs to step back and look at the mental welfare of its population and really go out and help them. Also we need to get rid of the stigma behind mental illness because it is just as real as cancer and it needs to be addressed as a real illness and not just swept under the rug.
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Cpl Bulk Fuel Specialist
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spot on Sargeant!
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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We have to do certifications for everything else, why not have a concealed carry cerification for Military Installations? Get certified and then you can carry, must do an annual certification. We have to do Computer based training, why not do something like NRA Certifcations?
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Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn
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I'd like to see the military improve the mental health services provided to service members and veterans. I also think that we need to be very careful of stigmatizing PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc. Every combat veteran should be valued for their service on deployment, not seen as a potential "ticking time bomb" (as some media outlets seem to think). In order to encourage people to get the help they need, confidentiality must be safeguarded and reputations should never be tainted in the instance that any service member is brave and humble enough to seek the support that they require.
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