Posted on May 19, 2018
SPC Rotational Training Unit
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I’ve been to legal and they were no help. Without specifics, I’m being pressed with a couple charges that are inaccurate and my honest truth is backed by physical evidence. However, my unit does not want to drop the case. All legal told me was none of this was worth written counseling, let alone any degree of Article 15. They believe my LTC should drop the case but many in my unit say that he will not care and will still hit me with max punishment.

i have several NCOs that agree I am a great soldier that I’m being targeted because female combat arms is frowned upon. I refuse to believe that it’s outright bias, I would hope my unit is better than that.

Would anyone have advice on how to handle this situation professionally?
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Responses: 58
SPC Rotational Training Unit
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Just want to thank everyone who gave their input. I understand the sensitive nature of such things and I made sure not to include any details. I was only seeking clarification and advice on the process as a system, not necessarily the finer points of guilty/not guilty, etc.

The matter has been resolved in a much less severe state than it originally was, as it was blown out of proportion. I did go back to legal one more time and request to speak to a different individual and it was much more helpful.

Again, thank you all for taking the time to humor my mess.
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SSG Brian Lovins
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What do you mean your NCO's don't want to get involved, I have been out for a while and even longer since I was active duty but.
1) it wasn't ever a choice, it is their duty.
2) I recommended 2 Article 15s and during the reading the commander ask me the reason for it, recommended punishment and Soldiers conduct prior to this issue.
3) during an activation with the NG I had another SGT assigned to my squad that was sent to me because he had issues and was getting a field grade from his previous platoon, as squad leader I still had to sit in and do the same as I did for my own soldiers. I strongly disagreed with the punishment he was receiving and respectfully disagreed with the LTC, this wasn't my normal LTC from the guard side and I had never met this LTC but he did respect me for tactfully and respectfully voicing my opinion but it didn't stop him from punishing him as he saw fit. The point is as an NCO it is our job to take care of Soldiers. There is no I don't want to get involved.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
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Edited >1 y ago
If for desertion, rape, assault, missing movement level of misconduct - a Field Grade Article 15 is too low.
If failure to obey a lawful command, failure to be at your place of duty (such as leaving a guard post while under arms), conduct that is detrimental to good order and discipline (lying to harm others), incitement of others to disobey – about right as long as your commander doesn’t elect for Trial by Military Court.
A Repeat offender that has already been given one of the lower levels Article 15 – sure sounds ok to me but I tended to put repeaters (strike three) out-of-service.
Do you work for the field grade commander? – If so, then he has no alternative since he is your immediate commander but may decide to give you a Summary, Company or Field Grade Article 15. The assumption that a field grade officer must give a Field Grade Article 15 is erroneous, but is also unusual. Most likely if that were the case the field grade commander would simply have his CSM reassign the offender to a unit with a commander of lower grade. If they had a clearance it would probably be toast also.
Officers with less than the rank of Major holding a position of command may present soldiers with either a Summary or Company Article 15 or give a recommendation to the next Field grade officer in the soldier’s Chain of Command for a Field Grade Article 15 – His decision.
It is also the company grade commander’s decision to authorize the soldier's chain of command to conduct additional training to improve the soldier's performance and to correct the soldier. For that purpose the additional training must be focused on the soldier’s deficiencies.
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Example : In a failure to obey orders, the soldier may be given a series of orders under ‘close supervision’ by the soldier’s immediate (tier 1 CPL/SGT ) supervisor. Once the soldier, on inspection by the next higher supervisor/designated inspector (tier 2 SSG/PSG), completes the task(s) satisfactory the (tier 3 supervisor PL) informs the commander of the soldier’s successful completion of for what is in all intents – a retraining of a skill.
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I would push for additional training for several reasons.
1. It retrained the soldier and improved their weak areas.
2. It gave my junior NCOs practice in leadership.The soldier would get used to following and the NCO would be refining his skills.
3. It exersized the chain of command from top to bottom and also across (by observation by non-involved parties) the tiers of leadership.
4. Lastly - it retained the soldier.
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As several have recommended herein, you should seek legal counsel after you are presented the Article 15. Just because someone mentions the possibility doesn’t mean they’re going to follow-thru and this isn’t the forum for legal advice.
On that point, this really, really, really isn't the forum for legal counsel. We can provide advice. Mine own advice is see what shakes out and act accordingly - plus regardless of what got you in hot water – don’t do it again.
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SSG Paul Forel
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I hope you are not one of those types who likes to argue during a rocket attack.
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COL Deputy Chief Of Staff
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I think you should consult with Trial Defense Service or an off-post lawyer to assist. Don't listen to the barracks lawyer about what you should or should not do, listen to an actual lawyer. If you feel this is not just, then you have the option to decline NJP and take a court martial. But, speak to a lawyer first.
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CPL Douglas Chrysler
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If you are able to use a civilian lawyer, find one that restores gun rights and isn't a publicity seeker.
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SPC Joseph Durham
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PFC (Verify To See)
Ok, let's look at this from a career perspective. I seen a lot of SGM's that lost a stripe or two early in their careers. They buckled down and did their jobs afterwards. Unless you are being accused of something truly horrible, you are not going to lose a stripe. You will be losing money and it maybe be a lot of it. Get all the speakers you can. Especially if they are in your chain of command. If you can't get speakers, quoting the UCMJ for your actions is probably the least effective. I lost a rank. I had it made up and promoted the next rank higher with in a year E-3 down to E-2 then promoted twice to E-4. How? I didn't take the punishment personal. It was a guide to put me on the correct path. That was all. I kicked ass and did my job. Everybody in the motor pool was coming to me for answers and all I was was the XO's jeep driver.
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SP5 Paul Riley
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While I was deployed, the company I was attached to, a Reserve component out of California lost my mail. It contained a $650 camera. I complained loudly and even went to the IG because I was close to going home. I was given a field grade article15 for rolling my eyes to a senior NCO, and after I received the AR 15, the NCO who had lost my mail and did all the paperwork for the AR 15 took me aside and paid me $650 for the lost mail. JAG was a waste of time and my unit did nothing to help. In hindsight what I should have done was go for a court martial. I am retired, 20 years and am studying to be a lawyer and have that field grade AR 15 framed above my desk.
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MSG Frank Kapaun
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Great Ceasar’s ghost! Who the hell in their right mind would post something like this in a public forum? Lawyer the up buttercup.
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CPT William Jones
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I would think for minor stuff it is rare unless you are in his area. but what is minor some think DWI first off is minor. However my oponion is it is right in line with shooting at the CO.I wouls start with a general courts martial if command allowed it. My son a major now had a very close friend killed by o first time dwi would like to just call a formation and shoot them as an example.
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