Posted on Aug 17, 2016
CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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MSG Air Defense Artillery (ADA) Senior Sergeant
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A Soldier would have an Associates by the time they hit PFC if all those online certs were worth credits...
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SSG Program Control Manager
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Web based training isn't ideal, however it is inexpensive and much better than nothing at all. It should also be pointed out that not all web based training is equal, some of the training is "game based" and requires thoughtful interaction with the program.
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CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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I believe that a Soldiers' future is an investment. Spending less money elsewhere, such as the billions of dollars we are pissing away in Africa, would open more funds to be allocated to the maturation of our military. I keep hearing that it is a different color of money but that does not concern me. Someone needs to undoubtedly audit where all of our tax dollars are going. Many , if not all of us, will not be pleased. Thanks for your comments Battle!
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Disagree with concept that we are pissing away dollars in Africa. In the 80s I had just arrived at HQUSCENTCOM, actually still living in TLF, when we evacuated a group of Jews from Sudan (Sudan in our AOR then). Operation cost millions but it was a vital humanitarian mission. Lots of criticism about why money given to CENTCOM to conduct mission. Point is that back then CENTCOM was considered a back water command and we shouldn't be wasting money on them; guess who gets funding at the blink of an eye today? Same rational applies to Africa, you never know where the next hot spot will be and every dollar spent in a particular AOR is well spent in the long run.
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SSG Program Control Manager
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We could abandon the region to competing Chinese and Russian interests, I'm not certain that would be wise though...
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COL Division Chief
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My impression and experience is that the military trains its personnel via a mixture of live, virtual, and simulated settings and chooses those mechanisms according to multiple factors e.g., what is the quickest and most verifiable way to train SAPR so that you can assure Congress that everyone has been exposed to its definition of Sexual harassment and the same best practices for shutting it down? If commanders and other leaders want to give that training personally there is nothing preventing them from doing so... other than training days and locations, proper certifications and expertise, and 100% synchronous availability of the training audience. In my opinion the option to deliver this material in a familiar, asynchronous, emotionally compelling , consistent and precise virtual module makes a lot of sense when you compare it to the cost of alternatives. It's not like service members will stop complaining about this if they get it from a live person in their chain of command giving the training. There is the same opportunity for service members to sit through and ignore or to get differing levels of training in a live setting. I don't mean to entirely dismiss your argument here. Maybe there is a bettter balance to be struck or an innovation to be explored. Like if you get the training live you can go two years between certifications. Or if you watch a documentary and write an OPED on an issue like why the problems of suicide and sexual harassment are still plaguing our profession then you can opt out of the next several courses. Maybe we should produce "after school specials" and put them on Netflix so that personnel are as entertained as they are educated. Anyway thanks for raising the issue. It's clear that there is something wrong here with the way this is coming across to the training audience. So something needs to change.
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CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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I am loving the Netflix idea Sir! Maybe we should embed them into Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto? Thank you for your views on the subject. It is always nice to see our Senior Leadership involved in the concerns of our ranks.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Spot on Col Thibodeaux. I was only in the formative years of computer based training, as it was called then, while in the military. It was obvious that there are pluses and minuses to this method of training even then but the one thing it guaranteed was standardization of training. The live person in the chain of command you mention doesn't guarantee this which is why I think so much training in both military and civilian worlds has gone to web/computer based training.
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How detrimental is the ridiculous amount of web-based training to the new generation of "Soldier"?
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Just by the way you ask the question I can tell you aren't exactly a fan of web based training. However, training is essential both in the military and civilian worlds. Having spent most of my military career in the pre web training environment, I can recall many discussions about the ridiculous amount of training we had to sit through, or often go TDY for, to get trained. No amount of lecture training could replace hands on training in those days and the same is true for web based training today. But bottom line, the training must be completed.
Web based training is so much more efficient, cost effective and easy to schedule compared to having a warm body standing there reading a PowerPoint presentation to a room full of troops who had to be pulled from normal duties because this is when the instructor was available. In todays age training is predominantly web based and this is how people entering the service have become accustomed to being trained. In the county where I live high school students are actually required to complete at least one web based class as a graduation requirement. I doubt you are spending any more training time just because the course is web based.
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CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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I am thinking they should move this to Basic Training and AIT, making it more of a symposium. Yes, it would prolong the AIT and BCT but the majority of new Soldier does not arrive to a unit either in shape or having a basic knowledge of their MOS. This has been an epidemic for years. Now, we are paying the price. Thank you for your comments Sir. They are always welcome.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Agree Basic Training should be heavy on web based training. However you are never going to eliminate need for follow-up training at the unit level and this is where it is probably most effective for everyone.
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Maj Marty Hogan
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How could we not fight a war without 100 hours of SAPR training?
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CPO Mark Lovelace, CSP
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I've been out of the training and curriculum development loop for a while now, but I'm guessing it is more effective for the troops of today than it is on an old squid like me. My organization uses it and I agree with some of the other comments, that most of it is unqualified garbage. But...if Pokémon go is all the rage on bases across the land who knows....not I.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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All I can say when I went to a reserve unit back in the 90's we used to actually set our equipment up and train on it, when I retired in 2015, most units spent 60% of their day marking of required training for online stuff. When these units mobilize they have to spend extra time training up because somebody higher up decided that all this other stuff needed to be covered so they can check the box.
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LTC Comptroller
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Most of it is garbage. Give commanders back the authority to train their Soldiers and then hold them accountable for its failures. Don't make training check the box
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MAJ Ralph Barnes
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I think its easy to miss the point of the training. The training has been shown to only marginally educate the student. Want proof; Ask your Soldiers the difference between restricted and unrestricted reporting in a sexual assault case. The difference is in the training but does not stick as well.
However, it is a metric. When all the people in the Army have taken that training, the CSA can say that we are all trained. Also, if you ever go to court for something like sexual assault or harassment, do you not think the prosecutor will present your annual training records and say "well he was trained and knew better"? If you really want to understand a subject, teach that subject to your Soldiers. It is how I learned to do it, long before web based training was invented.
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CW2 Battalion Maintenance Officer (Bmo)
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Absolutely Sir! Other training such as SERE ans AT level I should be trained on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I am currently serving in a operator capacity in Niger. SERE and AT Level I are prerequisites for this...understandably. However, PVT Snuffy has n need for that particular training at that time.Soldiers know and feel when they are just a check mark. This type of training treats them as such.
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LCDR Instructor Pilot
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I had to take online SERE training literally 4 months after I went to actual SERE before I deployed. Pointless.
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SFC And Battle Systems Manager
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I don't think web based training educated the soldier. It's my experience that when you tell joe he needs to complete an online course the first thing he says is "Who has the answers?" I've been in units where the CSM finds the one private who isn't doing anything, sits him down at the computer with an alpha roster and tells joe he needs to produce a training certificate for every name on the roster. Nobody takes the training seriously. Soldiers aren't getting the training they need delivered in an effective way.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Ok, that's a unit leadership problem, not a web based training problem.
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SFC And Battle Systems Manager
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Maybe the two are connected. Leadership doesn't take online training seriously, so soldiers and junior leaders don't take it seriously.
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