Posted on Apr 5, 2015
How did EOF rules help or hurt your unit down range?
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Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
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Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
//
Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Posted in these groups: 
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 90
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Though I didn't agree with EOF in the field, I understand the reasoning behind it. It's one thing to plow through and win a fight, it's another to try and develop diplomatic relations after the dust settles. Though EOF was viewed as a waste of time sometimes, it does have a place in the "Winning the hearts and minds" effort.
Now, ROE, that's a different story!
Now, ROE, that's a different story!
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We were not allowed any magazines unless on convoy and then limited access to rounds, complete bullshit. We hauled munitions all over and were not allowed sidearms, etc...
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Our company had teams tasked as convoy escorts in the BIAP area 2006-2007. The teams received ROI that basically nullified EOF. They were basically told to not fire back, if they were attacked. I'm not sure where these orders originated from, but they came down through the national guard battalion that we were placed underneath, since our company deployed as a slice element, instead of as a part of a whole battalion. So, IDK who was responsible for the change in ROE, but I considered it a BS call.
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I never had issue with this in either of my deployments, Iraq or Afghanistan. Iraq they IED'd is and took of or called it in and in A-Stan it was gun in gun battles.... I think the real point here is what is the primary objective of war? Inflict so much damage and pain on the enemy that they lose by attrition or surrender - those are the only real end points!
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Remember EOF is not a 1 2 3 4....step process where 1 must be preformed before 2. If situation dictates go straight to 4. It allows the soldier the ability to handle every situation with control, and support from leadership on any action taken.
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Just an observation and opinion, it seems higher leadership is more interested in this stuff, than those likely of utilizing it. Until there is a training method that gets your field people behind it, its going to remain questionable at minimum, and worthless or ignored at maximum. Too PC for me. If you are "an innocent" who knows you're in a war zone, you should probably just move your ass out of the way of battle. The battle will not often dance on eggshells because you stayed put...nor should it be expected to do so (realistically, if not via policy).
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Honestly anyone thinking that EOF hurts your unit doesn't understand the bigger picture. For every innocent we kill we turn 2-5 people into enemies. No longer is war about destruction. War has evolved and with that the warfighter must evolve. If you can't do that you have no business in this field. IF you're not able to remove yourself from the equation and think about the overall strategy you don't understand the military anyway.
Simply put, EOF rules directly contribute to lower civilian casualties which directly contribute to lower recruitment of enemy fighters. This isn't like a normal war against a country, and it never has been. You're not simply able to shore up fighters by instituting a draft. All of those people want to be there for their own reasons. Don't make the reason a US soldier is killed is because of killing an innocent. That's as bad as being killed by our own weapons.
Simply put, EOF rules directly contribute to lower civilian casualties which directly contribute to lower recruitment of enemy fighters. This isn't like a normal war against a country, and it never has been. You're not simply able to shore up fighters by instituting a draft. All of those people want to be there for their own reasons. Don't make the reason a US soldier is killed is because of killing an innocent. That's as bad as being killed by our own weapons.
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In my humble opinion CPL Brian Clouser and SPC Jan Allbright said it best.
"EOF and ROE are appropriate for Police, not war"... and "if you're going to make war, then make war... Unrelenting, unmitigated war"
You can't give a 19 year old a few months of training, drop him in a combat zone and expect him to have the ability to act like a Police officer, it's beyond his capabilities, but you CAN drop him in a combat zone and tell him to "tear the ass out of everything that moves" and expect great success.
We have the technology to pinpoint where shots and triggers come from down to the foot, we also have the ability to drop 500lbs of HE in that same foot. Collateral damage is a part of the cost of waging war, let the United Nations play "Police force" and "carrot" for developing nations... we're much better at in the role of "the stick".
"EOF and ROE are appropriate for Police, not war"... and "if you're going to make war, then make war... Unrelenting, unmitigated war"
You can't give a 19 year old a few months of training, drop him in a combat zone and expect him to have the ability to act like a Police officer, it's beyond his capabilities, but you CAN drop him in a combat zone and tell him to "tear the ass out of everything that moves" and expect great success.
We have the technology to pinpoint where shots and triggers come from down to the foot, we also have the ability to drop 500lbs of HE in that same foot. Collateral damage is a part of the cost of waging war, let the United Nations play "Police force" and "carrot" for developing nations... we're much better at in the role of "the stick".
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