Posted on Apr 5, 2015
How did EOF rules help or hurt your unit down range?
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Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
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Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
//
Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Posted in these groups: 
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 90
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What is EOF? Really though.. My first tour there was a significant amount of mutual trust between the NCOs and Officers. We knew our leaders were going to have our backs and honestly that makes shoot/no-shoot SIGNIFICANTLY less stressful! We had very minimal issues injuring civilians.
Bottom Line: When you don't have to worry about being thrown under the bus for the shot, you can evaluate the situation with a far clearer mind. This, IMO, equals less shots taken over all and of those shots, they will more often than not be prudent decisions easy to defend if necessary.
Bottom Line: When you don't have to worry about being thrown under the bus for the shot, you can evaluate the situation with a far clearer mind. This, IMO, equals less shots taken over all and of those shots, they will more often than not be prudent decisions easy to defend if necessary.
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You have to fight the enemy in the same mode or fashion that they fight you. if you do not, you have no hope of winning.
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More time spent in training on realistic ROE (Rules of Engagement) would have paid huge dividends in both Afghanistan as a Combat Engineer and in Iraq in Civil Affairs controlled by Bragg. At that point the highest levels of command would not have had to put forward unrealistic expectations as to how EOF would be implemented in a real world scenario. They refused to believe, seemingly, that some of us outside the wire accomplishing missions could possibly understand the intricacies of Counter-insurgent Operations and the effects upon Insurgent requirement of collateral damage.
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indiscriminate killing is the business of the people we were fighting. It, at times, might have been hard to hold ourselves to a higher standard but we were all trained to do hard things. So in summation, shit sucked but I guess shit sucked for good reasons?
WTF do I know though, just a dumb scout
WTF do I know though, just a dumb scout
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On our second deployment our SQD CDR informed us that every time we pulled the trigger a 15-6 would be initiated. Not what you want running through your Soldiers minds when a vehicle is barreling down on them.
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As far EOF I go to the extreme of the spectrum. We put boots on the ground and use any means of force to quell the insurgency. It is war and in war you play to win not to make people like you. If you do your job right after the opposition is destroyed in theatre then the people will support the cause. Just my humble opinion
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I believe it can go either way ours changed so much no one knew what was going on!!! But the fact that you have to wait for the enemy to shoot is bs. They can point their weapons and get a fix on you all they wanted but that one shot is all it takes for us to lose another brother or sister! I also understand some react to quickly or prematurely before they know really what's happening but, its you or them, your life your call.
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I am a firm believer that during war, any military aged males become fair game based upon good judgement from the guys on the ground. We have no room for politics when patroling in a hostile area.
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I don't believe there should be limits as to when a soldier returns fire. If the platoon leader feels a threat, he or she should be empowered to make a judgment call as to how to respond to said threat. Not politicians or public opinion. War is evil and not for the squimish.
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