Posted on Apr 5, 2015
How did EOF rules help or hurt your unit down range?
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Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
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Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
//
Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Posted in these groups: 
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 90
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It caused soldiers to hesitate and that means casualties. The enemy learns from our SOPs and then he counters with his new found knowledge. It's hard to be combat effective when you have one hand tied behind your back before you leave the wire, while the enemy breaks every rule and when the enemy is within.
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I'll say this simply I was in OIF during the bloodiest time of the war for 18 months 06-07 and the EOF or ROE Damn near got us all killed if you go to war go to war not tie everyone's hands behind their back then let the enemy shoot at us and tell us not to engage but if you can runaway
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I think EOF helped. I never liked them, but they helped. What I thought was much worse were the Staff Pogues second guessing everything and trying to over ride the people on the spot.
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I look at the case of 1LT Clint Lorance who got 20 years in the killings of two possible Afghan scouts. 1LT Lorance worked in the TOC before taking lead of the platoon. You would think he would know what the ROE's were and how to explain and account for his actions.
The kicker in the case is that the gunner that did the actually killing was not charged with following an unlawful order nor was the LT in giving an unlawful order as least for what I can find on the case.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/08/clint_lorance_north_texas_sold.php
The kicker in the case is that the gunner that did the actually killing was not charged with following an unlawful order nor was the LT in giving an unlawful order as least for what I can find on the case.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/08/clint_lorance_north_texas_sold.php
Clint Lorance, a North Texas Soldier, Will Spend 20 Years in Prison for Killing Afghan Civilians
U.S. Army Lieutenant Clint Lorance had been in charge of his platoon for five days when, on July 2, 2012, he accompanied them on a routine, Afghan-led patrol in Kandahar Province. Not long after they left the base, the soldiers were approached by three men on motorcycles. Lorance ordered his...
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Excessive EOF and ROE , in peace time and war is bad. Keep it simple tell the Joe's to use common sense and if the fucker poses a threat eliminate it. Train what is a threat and there will be less issues.
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Either send us to war to destroy our enemy or keep our asses home! Im so sick and tired of this namby pamby pc BS! I'm not saying its ok to slaughter civilians but its war and soldiers shouldnt have to second guess every action they take!!!
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EOF is a politicians way of saying "oh, wait, don't kill em, just yet, like that, until we say so."
Once you sic a dog on someone you damn well expect that animal to come back with a smiling mouth full of some one else's ass. PERIOD.
When politicians fail, Admirals and General RULE!
Once you sic a dog on someone you damn well expect that animal to come back with a smiling mouth full of some one else's ass. PERIOD.
When politicians fail, Admirals and General RULE!
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Multiple scenarios where we had kids literally climbing our walls into our FOB (Jackson-Sangin 2013) and would steal things. We are only lucky that they did not plant IED's or bring a pistol/grenade and kill someone inside the FOB. ROE's are a completely different animal as well, but that will be for another article.
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