Posted on Apr 5, 2015
How did EOF rules help or hurt your unit down range?
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Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
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Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Look, I get it – the popular response here is to say that all EOF (Escalation of Force) rules hurt units on the ground, no matter what. Some of us want to say, “Without any EOF rules we would have won both wars so easily!” To me, these comments belong in the same category as when people say, “Just nuke the whole Middle East and things will be perfect.” Neither statement is true at all (perhaps some will debate me on that).
Having said all this, I do acknowledge that there were times when EOF rules – and uncertainty in how to actually manage them as a leader – made it really tough to be effective on the ground in Iraq.
But there were also times when EOF rules HELPED my unit’s effectiveness, such as in dealing with local Iraqis who turned out to be innocent.
//
Question for RP community -- I’d like to hear from RP members about times when EOF rules actually helped their unit. Or, if you choose, you can also reflect on times when EOF rules made things harder.
Posted in these groups: 
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 90
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Our unit managed to create real bonds with the local community IED's were at an all time low for the province along with mortar and rocket attacks. Because of the policies the units that replaced us put in place all of these things increased and led to them losing soldiers.
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Id like to throw this out there...
I didn't join the military to be world police! I joined to be a fighting force for freedom and the american way of life. Truthfully, at least in my opinion, EOF means its not a war, its a conflict.
I didn't join the military to be world police! I joined to be a fighting force for freedom and the american way of life. Truthfully, at least in my opinion, EOF means its not a war, its a conflict.
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I have a left ear that buzzes all the time, a memory I can't shake and the knowledge that I could have made a difference.
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I have no opinion either way. We as a country help everyone and always do the right thing. But sometimes we have to act a certain way to perform our duties to complete the mission.
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I believe Robert Heinlein said it best with this quote.
"War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control ...If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
"War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control ...If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
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Me personally, I go with the Nuke the Middle East option. BUT that would bring too much heat on us. Then maybe a policy of keeping out of the Middle East seeing its a no win situation.
As far as EOF, yes we need them. Not to win the heart and minds of Muslims, who I really couldn't care less. But as a honorable military worthy of the American public.
As far as EOF, yes we need them. Not to win the heart and minds of Muslims, who I really couldn't care less. But as a honorable military worthy of the American public.
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Overall they helped, but Id have to say that its only about 51/49 tip over for EOF being a good thing. I do agree that it separates us from the Terrorists, yet the cost of it, i.e. "you can only fire if you're being fired upon", is a high one. I've...we've all lost too many Brothers in Arms to others who shot first. Everything has its own negatives, and the side effects of a one-sided ethics is overwhelming, this is war we're talking about.
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There should be a third option. As I have been in both situations. When I was an 11B ( I re-classed), the EOF rules definitely hurt our capabilities. As warriors (and no, just because you wear the uniform doesn't make you a warrior, a debated for another time) it is our job to fight and kill the enemy. When I re-classed and got sent to a POG unit, the EOF rules helped, as most of the Soldiers I was with had no actual combat experience. So I guess all I am saying is it really depends on your situation.
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