Posted on May 29, 2015
How do CSMs select the best future SFCs of the Army?
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I've always wondered what exactly is looked for while the board is being conducted. I know we have all been told throughout our careers that NCOERs, 1059s(Commadants List), Schools, College, Physical fitness, Duty Positions and general appearance are highly looked upon.
However, every time the board results are released there's many Soldiers who lack a lot of what's asked of them, leaving with a sequence number. Then there are Soldiers who have done everything they possibly could, even volunteering for the worst jobs i.e. Drill Sergeant & R.I. who get looked over.
Am I missing something? I feel I've done everything I could. I know I lack ranger, but I have strong NCOERs and everything else I've listed above. Don't refrain from honesty, but what else could I or anyone else looking for that next level of responsibility do?
However, every time the board results are released there's many Soldiers who lack a lot of what's asked of them, leaving with a sequence number. Then there are Soldiers who have done everything they possibly could, even volunteering for the worst jobs i.e. Drill Sergeant & R.I. who get looked over.
Am I missing something? I feel I've done everything I could. I know I lack ranger, but I have strong NCOERs and everything else I've listed above. Don't refrain from honesty, but what else could I or anyone else looking for that next level of responsibility do?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
SSG Moore, we really look for the one who has done better than the average bear...beyond the ordinary. Too many people think they should be promoted for what they have done, not for what they are expected to do!! Your record should indicate your potential and your ability to live up to your potential. How do you communicate that? How many happy soldiers do you see in a file photo? Looking stern and tough is fine, but do you exude confidence and competence? You met the standard if we are looking at your file. I want to promote you, and I am not looking for reasons NOT to promote you. Sometimes we have to look at it that way to cull the herd later, but it's a very fair process.
In my case we draw a line and then relook people just above and below it in both zones. People do get moved up to meet standards, goals, career field gaps and looking to the future. If you make SFC you can make Sgt Major. But the competition gets keener, with more qualified people at each level (you know the song about statutory limits on the number of E8s and E9s (1 to 3 percent or whatever it is now).
If I am looking at six staff sergeants who all have the same career track, nice NCOERs, PT, similar awards, the standard.... it might come down to how one looks in uniform, whether ribbons are correct, how many times they've been deployed or overseas--and of course how well you did there. Were you in a higher graded position? What does your past record say about your future success. But the fellow who stands out is often the one who added something new to his/her record each year--someone who made an investment in the Army and who the Army made an investment in. Folks in the 'tough' jobs surely do get moved up--but with today's tempo all jobs are tough. It's what you did in the job, how you improved yourself that impresses me if you want a 6+++++ vote. Special, nominative Assignments put you in another class; they tend to also follow a career track. So volunteer through your branch or get nominated any one you can (SHAPE, DOD, embassy, instructor, etc).
In my case we draw a line and then relook people just above and below it in both zones. People do get moved up to meet standards, goals, career field gaps and looking to the future. If you make SFC you can make Sgt Major. But the competition gets keener, with more qualified people at each level (you know the song about statutory limits on the number of E8s and E9s (1 to 3 percent or whatever it is now).
If I am looking at six staff sergeants who all have the same career track, nice NCOERs, PT, similar awards, the standard.... it might come down to how one looks in uniform, whether ribbons are correct, how many times they've been deployed or overseas--and of course how well you did there. Were you in a higher graded position? What does your past record say about your future success. But the fellow who stands out is often the one who added something new to his/her record each year--someone who made an investment in the Army and who the Army made an investment in. Folks in the 'tough' jobs surely do get moved up--but with today's tempo all jobs are tough. It's what you did in the job, how you improved yourself that impresses me if you want a 6+++++ vote. Special, nominative Assignments put you in another class; they tend to also follow a career track. So volunteer through your branch or get nominated any one you can (SHAPE, DOD, embassy, instructor, etc).
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CW2(P) (Join to see)
SGM, thank you for the reply. I appreciate the depth of info you provided, and it is clearly understandable. I guess I just dont understand how some Soldiers get promoted when they didn't even know they were eligible or even have a DA Photo and others bust their butt to prepare and do everything right, or so it seems. A lot of infantrymen are told they will never make SFC without an EIB, but it is seen over and over again. Last year, a good friend of mine, a fellow 11C was selected and he has been a CSM's driver for 4 years. Maybe his job entails more than I thought, or maybe he received outstanding NCOERs with a CSM as a rater, I dont know?
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG Moore...many people perpetuate myths; there are no unwritten rules for promotion; however, people do think in cultural patterns. I've heard that a ranger tab trumped all, but saw many ranger qualified majors and SFCs not get promoted. So what we hear is speculation, not fact. If two people are standing in front of us one with an EIB and the other not, but the other has three Bronze Stars...again, something different that breaks away from the pack. There are a few cases when a fellow simply has more time in grade/in service, or the fellow with EIB had an article 15 as a recruiter....lots of stuff to consider. Have seen much of it.
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG Betts, good comments and very true. The level of responsibility is often reflected in who rates/senior rates. We pay attention and have been known to call the rater. I have been called about my own ratings "what did you really mean when you said xxx about SSG Snuffy?"
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It's a mishmash of inconsistent reasons that only THEY know, and it changes every year, for reasons ONLY they know, and will never fully explain. Yes, I'm bitter, and angry, that I'll retire an E-6. But then I watch people make it on first looks who couldn't march their way out of a shithouse. It's not even just me. I've seen guys and gals who are 10x more deserving as I not make it.
Who knows what they're thinking when they make selections. Probably just a wall, blindfolds, and a dartboard.
Who knows what they're thinking when they make selections. Probably just a wall, blindfolds, and a dartboard.
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SSG Moore, fortunately we will soon have a better answer to your question. The changes to the NCOER will allow boards to truly see who is the best among the force as compared to their peers. Not just the right jobs, but whether they were above the center of mass versus just some subjective random bullets which justify a non-controlled box check. "Strong NCOERs" are relative. I have seen very few weak NCOERs. Only a handful of mediocre NCOERs. The rest are strong. I'd say about 70-80% of them. That's way over the "center of mass" ideology. I'll be glad to finally see some rigor in this sytem.
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CW2(P) (Join to see)
Hey Sir! I received my training for the upcoming NCOER. I do believe it is going to definitely benefit most Soldiers due to the fact that everyone will no longer be that super stud "1-1" "AMONG THE BEST". I do think there are small loop holes that will screw some Soldiers though. If I am the only Mortar Section Sergeant in an Infantry Battalion, and, say I am absolutely amazing at my job.. My Senior Rater can only rate me the highest rating 1 time in 4 years. Not saying anyone is good enough to earn it every time, but some Soldiers clearly are. I do think this system will be abused sooner or later and leaders will just stop using that highest rating. I hope for the best from this, and hope it evens out the ball field. I have many officers who I have befriended who have taught me how to write correctly. Hopefully, I can use this to benefit my future Soldiers, unlike many of my former leaders have failed to do. When I was a buck Sergeant, I received what I thought was an awesome NCOER. Now, looking back, it was atrocious and nothing but fluff that didn't even make sense.
I guess I'll find out in the next month or two if my last few NCOERs were good enough to get me through.
Thanks again for the replies, Sir.
I guess I'll find out in the next month or two if my last few NCOERs were good enough to get me through.
Thanks again for the replies, Sir.
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COL (Join to see)
CW2(P) (Join to see), I will have to look at the training packet, but your MOS shouldn't matter. It's a grade plate. All SSG's in your unit will be rated by your first line. In this case, it should be a SFC of some flavor. You'd be senior rated by a PL of some kind. If you were the only SSG in that PLT, then yes...you'd be an "N of 1." If, however...you didn't have a PL, being only a section...ok it's complicated to write out. The bottom line is that a Senior Rater should have more than one of a certain Grade Plate. The raters will not. They may have only one or two of a grade plate. For instance, I only had one SSG that I senior rated in the Squadron I commanded. That was the reenlistment NCO. This is a special case where I would be in trouble later on down the road if I had to rate her multiple times. That being said, when the system starts, senior raters will receive 3-5 "Highly Qualified" or "Center of Mass" "freebies" on their profile. This will allow them to give an equitable number of "Highly Qualified" or "Above Center of Mass" senior ratings if necessary immediately. This will allow them to make decisions based on the career path of hte individual and start building a larger profile which will allow them to maintain the right NCO's in the Army. There are nuances to the whole process, but it enforces rigor. Right now there are no controls and it is a free-for-all. This is a good move.
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SGM (Join to see)
LTC Halvorson, very true. As a military journalist, can definitely write and the appraisals and awards I wrote show it. That's why we need a less complicated system that focuses on three bullets that don't require an artist. The gist of an appraisal should quickly tell us if you are doing a good job or not (retain/do not retain) and whether you have potential for more responsibility (promote, do not promote). "Doing a good job" includes meeting all the standards, PT, skill, etc.
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SGM (Join to see)
CW2(P) (Join to see) - The training addresses this exact type of "small population" situation. "Small Population" is listed on the NCOER (less than 3 rated NCOs) and the expected norm is briefed to board members as highly qualified. All board members are directed to consider the rating population as compared to the rating for these scenarios.
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