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Being in the National Guard has its fair share of challenges. One major issue I have noticed is that often when an E-4 gets promoted to E-5 they are made a team leader in the same platoon or company that they have been in since day one. Often when this happens, they are made a first line leader (team leader) over people that they have been friends, and E-4 buddies with.
This is the current situation I am facing, one of our E-4s recently got promoted to E-5 during our deployment and took over as my ream leader. My other team member has been friends with this NCO for a couple of years and has continued his habit of the buddy-buddy relationship they had. This often leads to disrespect of our line leader during meetings and the like. I know my NCO sees the disrespect and is not comfortable with it, but often will let it go and not say anything. I do not know if this is because he is uncomfortable with his leadership, or if he is worried about his friendship. Though I suspect it may be both.
My question is what can I (as a lowly E4) do in this situation? I have spoken with my NCO and I know he knows the disrespect is there. I have also tried to speak to the SM about it, but he tends to get an attitude and pull TiS/TiG on me. Is there anything else I can do, or should I let this situation ride out and see where the chips land?
I respect my NCOs (always the rank, most often the person) and do want this taint or depreciate his view of being a NCO. I want him to be able to succeed in being an NCO, as I personally feel he will be a very good one, once he has a handle on how to lead as an NCO. Mind you, I am not an NCO, but I am older and have lived a very full life!
This is the current situation I am facing, one of our E-4s recently got promoted to E-5 during our deployment and took over as my ream leader. My other team member has been friends with this NCO for a couple of years and has continued his habit of the buddy-buddy relationship they had. This often leads to disrespect of our line leader during meetings and the like. I know my NCO sees the disrespect and is not comfortable with it, but often will let it go and not say anything. I do not know if this is because he is uncomfortable with his leadership, or if he is worried about his friendship. Though I suspect it may be both.
My question is what can I (as a lowly E4) do in this situation? I have spoken with my NCO and I know he knows the disrespect is there. I have also tried to speak to the SM about it, but he tends to get an attitude and pull TiS/TiG on me. Is there anything else I can do, or should I let this situation ride out and see where the chips land?
I respect my NCOs (always the rank, most often the person) and do want this taint or depreciate his view of being a NCO. I want him to be able to succeed in being an NCO, as I personally feel he will be a very good one, once he has a handle on how to lead as an NCO. Mind you, I am not an NCO, but I am older and have lived a very full life!
Leadership
Team Leader
Respect
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 16
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This is one of the biggest challenges we face as a newly-minted NCO. If we are promoted and remain in the same squad or even platoon, we are pretty much on our own to figure out how to break those "buddy" ties without completely alienating those that we are now tasked to lead. Alienation of them isn't terribly productive either, but your NCO is going to have to do a gut check and get it done.
Military structure is there for a reason, and the ability of an NCO to take charge, and the ability of his subordinates to fall in line is more than just military bearing. You are deployed. In that case, a breakdown could mean the difference between life and death. I know that may seem extreme, but isn't the most extreme what we all do our best to prepare for? Your NCO needs to either fix it, or ask to be moved where he can get a fresh start. Unfortunately moving isn't always feasible, and being an NCO isn't always easy.
Bottom line: If he can't fix this, he may not have been ready to be an NCO.
Military structure is there for a reason, and the ability of an NCO to take charge, and the ability of his subordinates to fall in line is more than just military bearing. You are deployed. In that case, a breakdown could mean the difference between life and death. I know that may seem extreme, but isn't the most extreme what we all do our best to prepare for? Your NCO needs to either fix it, or ask to be moved where he can get a fresh start. Unfortunately moving isn't always feasible, and being an NCO isn't always easy.
Bottom line: If he can't fix this, he may not have been ready to be an NCO.
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SGT Richard H.
One added thought: We talk a lot on here about how a new 2LT should lean on his senior NCOs and allow himself to be mentored by them. This goes for new SGTs too. Maybe have a discussion with your SGT and suggest to him that he do the same, and not try to go it alone. There's no shame in admitting that he has a lot to learn and trying to do so from guys that have been there.
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SSG (Join to see)
SGT Richard H. I agree that in a deployed situation the breakdown of military bearing could be the difference between life and death. I think many people forget this fact and scoff at the structure as old fashioned. We do try to prepare for the extreme, though I have noticed that since we have been here for 6 months, there seems to be a feeling of complacency that did not exist when we got here.
I also like the idea of of having new SGTs find a mentor and lean on their senior NCOs for support and help. After all, the NCO world is a new world that takes some getting used to. I am not an NCO, but I am also not blind and can see that it not an easy job, especially for those who are new to it. Being deployed only makes it that much harder I think. In any case, thank you for your thoughts. I will remember them.
I also like the idea of of having new SGTs find a mentor and lean on their senior NCOs for support and help. After all, the NCO world is a new world that takes some getting used to. I am not an NCO, but I am also not blind and can see that it not an easy job, especially for those who are new to it. Being deployed only makes it that much harder I think. In any case, thank you for your thoughts. I will remember them.
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SSG (Join to see)
Correct SGT. Some soldiers are promoted too quickly or there not mentally ready. Some individuals have to mature.
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5
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Two things:
First, to address your question directly, the best thing you can do personally is the right thing. Show respect as you have, and emulate an example for others to follow. They all know they are wrong, but wrong becomes OK when there is a quorum of people who think it is funny/ join in/ stay silent. Publicly do the right thing and don't slip into the trap. Keep any discussions of respect and professionalism private.
Second, this is senior leader business. Your First Sergeant erred in not making an adjustment to at least a different squad. It may be he/she just hasn't taken a look at the roster post-deployment yet, but the adjustment is necessary for the development of all involved and will head off any favoritism perceptions that may arise.
One more thing. Your professional and mature view on the subject tells me a lot about your readiness to be an NCO yourself. Use this as a learning tool for when it is your turn.
First, to address your question directly, the best thing you can do personally is the right thing. Show respect as you have, and emulate an example for others to follow. They all know they are wrong, but wrong becomes OK when there is a quorum of people who think it is funny/ join in/ stay silent. Publicly do the right thing and don't slip into the trap. Keep any discussions of respect and professionalism private.
Second, this is senior leader business. Your First Sergeant erred in not making an adjustment to at least a different squad. It may be he/she just hasn't taken a look at the roster post-deployment yet, but the adjustment is necessary for the development of all involved and will head off any favoritism perceptions that may arise.
One more thing. Your professional and mature view on the subject tells me a lot about your readiness to be an NCO yourself. Use this as a learning tool for when it is your turn.
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see)
In regards to our 1SG not making the adjustment to a different squad, he had to go back to the States a couple of moths ago with a back injury. We have an acting 1SG, but I am not sure he is aware that an appropriate adjustment was not made. I do know that this new NCO is going to a different unit when we return home, and I and the other SM will be returning our own units (i volunteered to deploy). Even with this being the case, I did not want this experience to have an effect on his time as NCO, as I believe he has the potential to be a very good NCO.
Thank you for your input and I will continue to maintain myself as an example. I just find that harder being a (newish) E4, as many soldiers in this unit tend to overlook this rank/grade.
In regards to our 1SG not making the adjustment to a different squad, he had to go back to the States a couple of moths ago with a back injury. We have an acting 1SG, but I am not sure he is aware that an appropriate adjustment was not made. I do know that this new NCO is going to a different unit when we return home, and I and the other SM will be returning our own units (i volunteered to deploy). Even with this being the case, I did not want this experience to have an effect on his time as NCO, as I believe he has the potential to be a very good NCO.
Thank you for your input and I will continue to maintain myself as an example. I just find that harder being a (newish) E4, as many soldiers in this unit tend to overlook this rank/grade.
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SSG (Join to see)
On a side note 1SG, Arden Hills is not that far from where I live. If I know my Minnesota geography...
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That new NCO should have counseled his soldiers. This would have accomplished two goals. First, it would have defined the expectations of his soldiers. Next, it would have established his role as the leader and a Professional instead of being a buddy.
A weak or young leader may fall victim to a strong minded subordinate or the pressure from his peers. That has to be addressed in a counseling and followed up with if it appears again. This can only be effected by that leader.
I was a squad leader in the same platoon in which I am now the PL in. It was a mishap but my old platoon was the only one that needed a PL so I went there. I became the boss of my old boss. It was not ideal but roles were defined and expectations were put in place. It was not a smooth transition but it worked.
A weak or young leader may fall victim to a strong minded subordinate or the pressure from his peers. That has to be addressed in a counseling and followed up with if it appears again. This can only be effected by that leader.
I was a squad leader in the same platoon in which I am now the PL in. It was a mishap but my old platoon was the only one that needed a PL so I went there. I became the boss of my old boss. It was not ideal but roles were defined and expectations were put in place. It was not a smooth transition but it worked.
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SSG (Join to see)
1LT Rosa,
We were given an initial counseling when he became our SGT, though it not happen until about a month and half after the transition. Many factors were at play with that, but I still feel it should have happened sooner. As an E4 I feel that initial and subsequent (monthly, quarterly, etc) counseling are extremely important to me in that they do define what is expected of me. I think the disconnect between when he became the NCO and when the counselings happened might be a large part of this issue.
I do agree with you about falling victims to pressure from peers, as I have witnessed this many times. What would you suggest in a case where the a counseling does not work for the soldier (i.e. they do not care/feel counselings are worthless) and the action continues?
Thank you for the advice on this subject, this is why I joined RallyPoint. To be able to talk with experienced SM and Veterans who can mentor me in my career!
We were given an initial counseling when he became our SGT, though it not happen until about a month and half after the transition. Many factors were at play with that, but I still feel it should have happened sooner. As an E4 I feel that initial and subsequent (monthly, quarterly, etc) counseling are extremely important to me in that they do define what is expected of me. I think the disconnect between when he became the NCO and when the counselings happened might be a large part of this issue.
I do agree with you about falling victims to pressure from peers, as I have witnessed this many times. What would you suggest in a case where the a counseling does not work for the soldier (i.e. they do not care/feel counselings are worthless) and the action continues?
Thank you for the advice on this subject, this is why I joined RallyPoint. To be able to talk with experienced SM and Veterans who can mentor me in my career!
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) If counselings aren't having the desired effect, the next step is UCMJ. People may not care about a piece of paper, but when it comes to their paycheck they usually step back in line
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SSG (Join to see)
SPC Beadle,
I agree that when it comes to someone's paycheck they "usually" fall back in line. Grumbling and whining about it perhaps, but in line none-the-less.
I agree that when it comes to someone's paycheck they "usually" fall back in line. Grumbling and whining about it perhaps, but in line none-the-less.
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CPT (Join to see)
When the initial counseling you need to go back and counsel him some more. It is crazy but there is a way that this is done. First off, I would get the first counseling that he was given and complete it. If you look at the bottom of the back page it is a follow up. I would write down any observations on it. If he is not responding to this leadership he needs to know the shortcoming.
Next I would give him an event-oriented counseling for his actions. At the top of the back page it had a space for an action plan. What I would do is that I would give them about 10 mins to develop their own action plan to address the short comings. Then I would write it in. In this case if he fails to meet the expectations of the action plan he can't really complain about since he made the plan. You need to steer him in the right direction with it but he will have to take ownership of the plan. If this fails I would seek to move him to anther squad and a stronger NCO or UCMJ. I would also counsel the TL for failing to establish his leadership role. He can't take a position like this and let a subordinate dictate what happens. He has to step up. It would not be a negative but a counseling to inform him his duties and options as a team leader.
Next I would give him an event-oriented counseling for his actions. At the top of the back page it had a space for an action plan. What I would do is that I would give them about 10 mins to develop their own action plan to address the short comings. Then I would write it in. In this case if he fails to meet the expectations of the action plan he can't really complain about since he made the plan. You need to steer him in the right direction with it but he will have to take ownership of the plan. If this fails I would seek to move him to anther squad and a stronger NCO or UCMJ. I would also counsel the TL for failing to establish his leadership role. He can't take a position like this and let a subordinate dictate what happens. He has to step up. It would not be a negative but a counseling to inform him his duties and options as a team leader.
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