Posted on Jul 25, 2016
How do you address obvious double standards in your ranks?
12.1K
92
66
7
7
0
Responses: 33
that depends. Good leaders know when to cut a person some slack as opposed to ruining their career. Does the person deserve a break? Here is a perfect example. I was UA Monday morning swooping down from Syracuse to North Carolina. (way out of bounds for a 48) Third time in 6 months. I rolled in at 3:pm. I knew I was going to get Office Hours. (Article 15, Non-Judicial Punishment, before your commanding officer). Before I went in The Top said to ask the CO for extra duty to make up the time . Right before the CO was about to fine me heavily and restrict me, I ask for extra duty. He looked at me for a minute and ask me "who told you to say that" .I said the Top. He hesitated and gave me 30 day extra duty, 3 hours a day. No fine no restriction. I was a good Marine, I just wanted to see my girl and get laid. He cut me some slack. The Top didn't help everyone nor did the CO have a sympathetic ear for Marines who to drunk to Fall-in or got in fights and spent a night in civilian jail or wise asses. Yeah it's a double standard but it's been part of the military all over the world for hundreds of years. Favoritism is another story and hurts a unit.
(2)
(0)
I'm retired, but it depended on the issue. I tried to lead by example. So if my troops did something stupid then they paid for it regardless, but when the issue was serious as in UCMJ or weight control for example, you know real career endears. I saw how the application of the of regulation or UCMJ was not being applied in a fare and equitable manner. I defended my troops and my self ruthlessly. I was the first to go to IG even have started a number of congressional inquiries in behave of my troopers. i believe that this hurt my career but more to the point if the regulation applies it applies to everyone. period end of statement. The more rank I got the more the bigger nightmare I was!
(2)
(0)
Let me let you in on a bit of a secret. Life is not fair. Sometimes there is a double standard for a reason. If you notice some soldier getting called out on something, and no one else is being called out for the same infraction, that soldier may be in need of special training to shape his/ her attitude, attention to detail etc. There is no such thing as equal in the army. Neither should there be. If one soldier is the first to volunteer for extra duty, and is always the one getting things done, don't be surprised if the NCO's overlook some small items. If you are a lazy D-bag and are getting called out for everything, perhaps you had better check yourself and police up your own bad attitude. You will be surprised at how things change for you. And yes, this does mean that you have to get up off your third point of contact.
(2)
(0)
I would love to say call it out, but that can put you in an awkward spot. In the 6 years I have been in, I've seen the double standard applied in situations ranging from simple details, to promotions, to drug selling and abuse. Its one one the unfortunate realities of the military. Its always been that way, and I honestly can't forsee it changing.
(2)
(0)
PVT (Join to see)
Mine was a dui one officer one enlisted guess who got punished and didnt i had zero explanation to my guys and peers About why that works
(0)
(0)
CW5 (Join to see)
Well, DUIs are a tricky situation. If handled in a court where they plead guilty to a lesser charge then they technically didn't get a DUI.
Some municipalities do things differently. In some places, DUI fines go to the state but reckless driving fines go to the city so they are inclined to plead down...
But in any case, if you get a DUI on post, all bets are off.
Some municipalities do things differently. In some places, DUI fines go to the state but reckless driving fines go to the city so they are inclined to plead down...
But in any case, if you get a DUI on post, all bets are off.
(0)
(0)
1LT Rich Voss
Specialist, you will never know why. It's not your business to be part of the investigation, nor the outcome. There certainly are double standards, quite clearly, in the UCMJ. Officers don't get Article 15s, they get Article 32s. There's no provision for "taking a stripe", or "busting down to private" within the framework of Article 32s. Officers are held to a higher standard. Rank not only has it's privileges, it has it's responsibilities. I personally know of 5 2LTs that got drunk, took down the Russian flag during an International Chess Match in the town where I was stationed, and urinated on it. 3 got caught. They wouldn't incriminate the other 2. The 3 offenders got Art. 32s, paid fines, were held back in rank one year, had to write letters of apology to the Russian delegation, and were shipped off to Viet Nam. Their troops never knew what happened to them, "they just rotated early". Nothing, except guilt perhaps, ever happened to the other two.The next year they rotated on a "regular" basis. Perhaps they then lead valorous careers, or all died. Don't know, nor care.Do you honestly think it's your business to monitor all the goings on in any given unit ? The Military is NOT, thank God, a democracy.
(0)
(0)
I would just caution people on jumping to conclusions. Just because you didn't see the punishment does not mean it did not occur. It is standard practice to transfer an individual out of the unit when a serious infraction occurs. With the army bureaucracy being what it is, serious adverse administrative action takes a while to process; and courts-martial even longer. In the meantime, the SM is drawing pay and coming to work; so it looks as if nothing is happening. Behind the scenes, there are events like show-cause boards and Article 32 hearings happening that no one sees. The command cannot violate that individual's privacy by broadcasting a status to the organization.
(1)
(0)
Books have been written about the subject. Do a search on Brian Hall at http://www.authorhouse.com. Good read.
Self publishing service since 1997, dedicated to discovering and publishing distinctive voices in current literature.
(1)
(0)
Get promoted! Step into those positions that can effect the necessary changes and implement policy and decisions that keep the standard at one.
(1)
(0)
The question is a very valid one and one that is impossible completely. The same kind of double standard exists in the 'real-world' within employment positions. The key is for the leader/commander to work for consistency. When assuming a command soldiers or workers questions their leaders methods. That is natural. Where the problem arises is when the leader fails to execute the same kind of discipline, motivation techniques equally to soldiers or employees. As an Officer and post military, teacher, coach and official, I have found that is the one aspect students, soldiers, athletes, and coaches respect from the individual in the leadership position. Too often I have worked with soldiers, students, athletes, and coaches that feel they know the 'best' way for me to lead, each, coach, or call fouls. I'm very comfortable after any situation when I know I handled the situation that arouse in a manner that I have handled a similar situation. The individuals challenging my double standard of leading, teaching, coaching or calling fouls, have to accept that the individual in authority has the final control of the situation. I know all of the leadership positions I have held I have worked on a kind of consistency that those I oversee can expect from me. This leadership methodology will never eliminate double standards,, but they will bring forth a kind of standard that a subordinate will come to understand and accept.
(1)
(0)
I truly feel that everyone will experience incidents that fit our definition of a double standard. It sucks when someone in a leadership position is placed in a position to have to explain or rationalize these events to subordinates.
Consider this when you have a soldier come to you and ask why Commander Humptyfranz is not being "tarred and feathered" over any type of infraction. How does Private Woppinnaki KNOW that Humptyfranz committed the infraction? 9 times out of 10 Pvt. Woppinnaki does not KNOW. He HEARD he THINKS "they" said and so on. But the good private does not KNOW. Nor does Private Woppinnaki KNOW that Humptyfranz hasn't been or isn't about to be pilloried, flayed, gouged and eviscerated again the private does not KNOW.
Now, do not be mistaken, the ugliness of double standards can and do exist. Double standards, even the appearance of double standards can wreak havoc on morale. But MOST TIMES these reports and questions of double standards are rooted in hearsay, rumors and class envy.
Now lets just say that it is all true. Commander Humptyfranz DID break into the medicinal stores of "Pappy Johns Spring Elixar" and was caught with his drawers around his ankles in a compromising yet passionate embrace with the local mullah's favorite goat on the night after Private Schmuckatelli was found proclaiming HIS love for the mullah's favorite goat. All things being EQUAL you would have to say they both would get the same punishment or lack thereof. But are all things REALLY EQUAL? Certainly the assumption is they are equal in that they are both members of the armed services, assumed to be males, and have a thing for four legged mammals when under the influence of "hunch punch". That's where the equality ends. The good captain has years of valuable experience, technical and tactical expertise, and command authority. The private is a hard worker, young, and of great future value to the service. Any punishment meted out could not be equal. Article 15 (if even applicable to officers) would have different impact and effect for both. Official letters of reprimand wouldn't mean a thing to Schmuckatelli but could be a career ender for Woppinnaki. So the only "standard" here is their like infractions.
YOUR ROLE, Specialist Gaudette, is not to try to make those appointed under you FEEL better about PERCEIVED injustices. YOUR ROLE is to discourage others from advancing information that is not FACTUALLY BASED. Educate your troops that the "Real World" is NOT as MTV portrayed it and that "what is sauce for the goose" in not always sauce for the gander. One of the basic premises of LEADERSHIP as I remember is that a LEADER "Knows his troops" and knows that each individual responds individually to their own set of motivators. What is punishment for one may not be punishment for another and what may appear to be a death sentence to one man may be a walk in the park for the next. Don't fall into the trap of trying to explain to people their own misperceptions. You will NEVER SUCCEED. Present YOUR view as the alternative perception and the rest is on them. You will hear a lot of "well I think" or "I feel" tell them it's o.k. to have THEIR thoughts and feelings but to present them as FACTS or expecting others to adapt to personal thoughts, beliefs, feelings or standards is ineffective and damaging.
NUF' SED !!!!
Consider this when you have a soldier come to you and ask why Commander Humptyfranz is not being "tarred and feathered" over any type of infraction. How does Private Woppinnaki KNOW that Humptyfranz committed the infraction? 9 times out of 10 Pvt. Woppinnaki does not KNOW. He HEARD he THINKS "they" said and so on. But the good private does not KNOW. Nor does Private Woppinnaki KNOW that Humptyfranz hasn't been or isn't about to be pilloried, flayed, gouged and eviscerated again the private does not KNOW.
Now, do not be mistaken, the ugliness of double standards can and do exist. Double standards, even the appearance of double standards can wreak havoc on morale. But MOST TIMES these reports and questions of double standards are rooted in hearsay, rumors and class envy.
Now lets just say that it is all true. Commander Humptyfranz DID break into the medicinal stores of "Pappy Johns Spring Elixar" and was caught with his drawers around his ankles in a compromising yet passionate embrace with the local mullah's favorite goat on the night after Private Schmuckatelli was found proclaiming HIS love for the mullah's favorite goat. All things being EQUAL you would have to say they both would get the same punishment or lack thereof. But are all things REALLY EQUAL? Certainly the assumption is they are equal in that they are both members of the armed services, assumed to be males, and have a thing for four legged mammals when under the influence of "hunch punch". That's where the equality ends. The good captain has years of valuable experience, technical and tactical expertise, and command authority. The private is a hard worker, young, and of great future value to the service. Any punishment meted out could not be equal. Article 15 (if even applicable to officers) would have different impact and effect for both. Official letters of reprimand wouldn't mean a thing to Schmuckatelli but could be a career ender for Woppinnaki. So the only "standard" here is their like infractions.
YOUR ROLE, Specialist Gaudette, is not to try to make those appointed under you FEEL better about PERCEIVED injustices. YOUR ROLE is to discourage others from advancing information that is not FACTUALLY BASED. Educate your troops that the "Real World" is NOT as MTV portrayed it and that "what is sauce for the goose" in not always sauce for the gander. One of the basic premises of LEADERSHIP as I remember is that a LEADER "Knows his troops" and knows that each individual responds individually to their own set of motivators. What is punishment for one may not be punishment for another and what may appear to be a death sentence to one man may be a walk in the park for the next. Don't fall into the trap of trying to explain to people their own misperceptions. You will NEVER SUCCEED. Present YOUR view as the alternative perception and the rest is on them. You will hear a lot of "well I think" or "I feel" tell them it's o.k. to have THEIR thoughts and feelings but to present them as FACTS or expecting others to adapt to personal thoughts, beliefs, feelings or standards is ineffective and damaging.
NUF' SED !!!!
(1)
(0)
Read This Next


Leadership
