Posted on Mar 16, 2018
How do you handle a disrespectful junior soldier that doesn't belong to you?
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I recently encountered a junior soldier who wore a patch I didn't recognize who was walking around outside in a VERY ate-up uniform. I showed him my ID card and identified myself and explained to him where he was wrong and asked him to correct the deficiencies. At which point, the soldier told me to go f*** myself and then tried to fight me. Now, the grunt in me got really excited and couldn't wait to wall-to-wall this young soldier, but the professional in me simply wouldn't allow it. So I asked what unit the soldier belonged to, to which he responded "To your f***ing mama, b****." Now RP Leaders, how would you suggest I go about rectifying this situation, or should I simply leave it be and let the Karma catch up with him?
**ADMIN NOTE** I still have not been able to find the patch and it's corresponding unit, so I have no way of finding this soldier's Command.
**ADMIN NOTE** I still have not been able to find the patch and it's corresponding unit, so I have no way of finding this soldier's Command.
Disrespect
Military bearing
DA Pam 670-1
Leadership
Morals
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 238
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I would have to agree with the comments about possibly being an impersonator. It seems this individual may be looking for a fight and it would behoove you not to engage. If this person is not in the military then you may get into more trouble than he will; just keep that in mind when you decide to put your boot up his fourth point of contact. As others have commented, try to get a picture next time if you can. As you stated, you have been unable to find the patch so it may not be a valid patch. Also, have you notified your chain of command just in case they encounter this person? Were you able to get a name from his uniform? Just a couple of things to think about from a "seasoned" Soldier. Yes, in my younger days I would have had the same initial response as you, but you learn to handle things differently as you get wiser. Just maintain your professionalism and don't let others bring you down to their level.
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WOW. Things must have really gone down hill since I was in (USAF 83-90). I never once saw disrespect that wasn't dealt with quickly and forcefully. I was a Security Specialist who saw many TDYs all over the world and never experienced this. As a SSgt I only had this happen to me once where an A1C didn't like his duty assignment (he had to carry the M-60 for his 10hr duty watch). He told me this would be the last time he did it). The next day at Guardmount I had him not only carrying it but I had him do a full breakdown demonstration for the flight. Afterwards I explained to him at "Close Range" in front of the flight why he would never again gainsay my authority to post him or anyone where I felt they were needed. Problem solved...............................
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If you can't find his chain of command you might have to let it go. Unless it is a repetitive issue.
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I am an Army Combat Support nurse since 1988, when faced this last war with mouthy, unruly and totally out of pocket soldiers, only one or two, I addressed it immediately, calling his Sergeant into my office along with the soldier. Settled right there and then, his Sergeant listening to the situation took it from there.
So for one sounds like you let him walk away , I would have taken him into my office and gone from there. If he wanted to fight or run I would call the MP. I am hearing way too many stories of this kind and I understand that Mathis is even having to tell these newbies if they won't deploy they are gone. Sad state this. As an officer when I was corrected or my uniform called into question I listened. As an officer I was reminded on and off by Sergeants concerning my boots etc. I listened.
Glad I am Reserves and inactive for now. Don't know who these guys would fear more the enemy or me cause not for one darned second would I put up with this.
So for one sounds like you let him walk away , I would have taken him into my office and gone from there. If he wanted to fight or run I would call the MP. I am hearing way too many stories of this kind and I understand that Mathis is even having to tell these newbies if they won't deploy they are gone. Sad state this. As an officer when I was corrected or my uniform called into question I listened. As an officer I was reminded on and off by Sergeants concerning my boots etc. I listened.
Glad I am Reserves and inactive for now. Don't know who these guys would fear more the enemy or me cause not for one darned second would I put up with this.
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As a former member of the 52nd MP CO. stationed on Ft. Sam Houston I am disappointed that the MP you talked to did not do his or her job and transport the young soldier to his orderly room and tell the ranking NCO or Officer about his attitude and behavior.
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SPC (Join to see)
I didn't contact the MPs. This happened off the installation, and he did not wear a patch that belongs to a unit on Jackson.
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Since he tried to fight you as an NCO you could have called the MP's and have detained the soldier until they arrived. If he was in town then call the cops and have him arrested for assault.
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It depends on your sincerity. To be frank, Leaders these days are not developed very well. Unfortunately, that very broad assertion comes with a few rare exceptions of those fortunate enough to have been invested in, or took it upon themselves to learn proper leadership.
Because of this, junior soldiers have become accustomed to most leaders being passionate about the rules, but not giving 2 farts about the soldier.
With that being said, I’d encourage you next time to show some passion/compassion for the soldier themselves. If they are “ate up”, start the conversation with asking how they are doing. Then proceed to start a conversation concerning the issue at hand and relate how rectifying it autonomously in the future will lead to better military career prospects.
I garuntee that will resonate with more meaning than acting like just another leader holding a stick while looking for junior SM’s to wallop.
If the soldier is from unknown origins, and still insists on acting like a fool, tell them to follow their heart and wish them luck.
I’ll part ways with some others on this thread and say that it’s not your job to run around the post policing up infractions, and you’ll drive yourself mad in the process of trying it. Moreover, if they aren’t your charges, then you have no idea what they have going on in their world and your attempt to police up a nameless and faceless person with no regard for their well-being could have disasterous consequences for a group or family that you hadn’t thought about once.
If you find yourself reading all that and thinking, “I’m not going to invest that much energy and time in to someone else’s project” then you probably ought to politely request they fix themselves and walk away without further question, or better yet, just walk away.
I welcome any feedback for that approach to leadership, and hope I didn’t offend any person/s in my response.
Because of this, junior soldiers have become accustomed to most leaders being passionate about the rules, but not giving 2 farts about the soldier.
With that being said, I’d encourage you next time to show some passion/compassion for the soldier themselves. If they are “ate up”, start the conversation with asking how they are doing. Then proceed to start a conversation concerning the issue at hand and relate how rectifying it autonomously in the future will lead to better military career prospects.
I garuntee that will resonate with more meaning than acting like just another leader holding a stick while looking for junior SM’s to wallop.
If the soldier is from unknown origins, and still insists on acting like a fool, tell them to follow their heart and wish them luck.
I’ll part ways with some others on this thread and say that it’s not your job to run around the post policing up infractions, and you’ll drive yourself mad in the process of trying it. Moreover, if they aren’t your charges, then you have no idea what they have going on in their world and your attempt to police up a nameless and faceless person with no regard for their well-being could have disasterous consequences for a group or family that you hadn’t thought about once.
If you find yourself reading all that and thinking, “I’m not going to invest that much energy and time in to someone else’s project” then you probably ought to politely request they fix themselves and walk away without further question, or better yet, just walk away.
I welcome any feedback for that approach to leadership, and hope I didn’t offend any person/s in my response.
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SPC (Join to see)
My $.02 here is this:
I wasn't correcting a financial issue, a marital problem or a family crisis. I was correcting a uniform. If said Soldier, whom I do not know from Adam, goes and offs themselves over me telling them (and I quote) "Hey Private Smith, I'm Specialist Pietrantonio from Fort Jackson." *shows ID card* "You know you gotta have your uniform squared away if you're gonna be out walking around in it. So let's close up the blouse, fix the boots and put some headgear on while we're outside, alright?"
Bearing in mind, I was in civilian clothes, as this happened at 2000hrs off post, so I have my leathers on, my earrings in and rings on every finger (I had just left a ride with a club, so I was taking my bike home). He then told me that if I was an NCO (never said I was) that I should know I can't wear earrings (not true anyway, per AR 670-1), and to get out of his face before he beats my a**. I then told him that I wouldn't have the ID if I wasn't who I said I was, and that he still needed to fix his uniform because regardless, it was still wrong, at which point he told me to go f*** myself. I got aggravated, asked what unit he belonged to, his response to which was "Your mama, bi***."
So, all due respect SGT, but no. I was polite and courteous on approach. But I will not be disrespected by some wannabe thug PFC for correcting his jacked up uniform. I don't need to be compassionate of this man-child's entire life story over an on-the-spot correction of a uniform.
I wasn't correcting a financial issue, a marital problem or a family crisis. I was correcting a uniform. If said Soldier, whom I do not know from Adam, goes and offs themselves over me telling them (and I quote) "Hey Private Smith, I'm Specialist Pietrantonio from Fort Jackson." *shows ID card* "You know you gotta have your uniform squared away if you're gonna be out walking around in it. So let's close up the blouse, fix the boots and put some headgear on while we're outside, alright?"
Bearing in mind, I was in civilian clothes, as this happened at 2000hrs off post, so I have my leathers on, my earrings in and rings on every finger (I had just left a ride with a club, so I was taking my bike home). He then told me that if I was an NCO (never said I was) that I should know I can't wear earrings (not true anyway, per AR 670-1), and to get out of his face before he beats my a**. I then told him that I wouldn't have the ID if I wasn't who I said I was, and that he still needed to fix his uniform because regardless, it was still wrong, at which point he told me to go f*** myself. I got aggravated, asked what unit he belonged to, his response to which was "Your mama, bi***."
So, all due respect SGT, but no. I was polite and courteous on approach. But I will not be disrespected by some wannabe thug PFC for correcting his jacked up uniform. I don't need to be compassionate of this man-child's entire life story over an on-the-spot correction of a uniform.
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SGT David Whitley
SPC (Join to see) No you don’t. The rules don’t require it... but I can easily see that staying in your lane and checking fire when appropriate is not a tactic you might not have figured out how to use effectively yet. If you’re going to develop as a leader, you’ve got to recognize when your agendas have drifted out of the scope of your ability to effectively lead. In the end, I t’s not about listening to the sob story of a man-child, it’s about developing your capacity to recognize when you develop tunnel vision on a situation that’s clearly beyond your bandwidth of ability and arguably, scope of authority to address effectively. On this very slippery slope of a situation, I’ve seen many leaders running around trying to correct little things when they aren’t even “on the clock” so to speak. They always tend to develop bad attitudes because they’ve sailed their boat under the Niagra Falls and can’t figure out how to “rectify the situation” with a Dixie cup for a bail.
My point on gaining the trust of the individual in question before you try to “square them away,” was simply to lay out the context of what it takes to effectively lead and develop future leaders. I hoped that you would recognize that you don’t possesd the bandwidth to effectively “square away” every lower enlisted soldier you meet. No one does. So it’s more damaging to your time and sanity to pursue similar situations beyond the two minutes of effort you put into it “on the spot.”
Again, just food for thought. Feedback welcomed.
My point on gaining the trust of the individual in question before you try to “square them away,” was simply to lay out the context of what it takes to effectively lead and develop future leaders. I hoped that you would recognize that you don’t possesd the bandwidth to effectively “square away” every lower enlisted soldier you meet. No one does. So it’s more damaging to your time and sanity to pursue similar situations beyond the two minutes of effort you put into it “on the spot.”
Again, just food for thought. Feedback welcomed.
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I'm a retired Navy Commander (0-5) and would have just corrected the individual rather than show my ID, with the assumption that the sailor did not know the problem. Clearly this loser knew the problem and didn't care (to say the least). I would have then assumed he was known to the MAA (MPs/Provost Marshal) and if I had the time, taken his name and description to them. The person who said his command would not care was probably right as his NCOIC should have corrected him a long time ago. This problem child is probably awaiting a General Discharge.
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Post a picture of the patch, can Google image search based off your description. I'm sure there is something that Soldier is good at, it's just not at being a Soldier. We all should help them transition to "former Soldier" status.
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Suspended Profile
You should had let the grunt in you out..... some people need to realize that there are consequences for there actions
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