Posted on Sep 30, 2014
How do you think "leadership" is fairly evaluated/counted at NCOES schools?
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I am currently attending ALC. We are being graded on academics, total soldier concept and leadership. My issue comes into play when I learned that leadership was one of the scores/grade being applied towards Total Soldier Concept grade. Hows is it possible to apply the same grade twice? Wouldn't it be a double jepourdy if you scored on the lower end or an extra boost if you scored better? Any and All feedback is appreciated.
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Schools
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 2
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As an SGL I look for several things when grading for leadership.
Are they helping others who are having trouble? Willing to stay after class in study groups or establishing study groups to help others?
Do they quell arguments and bring the group together during decision making ?
Do they utilize past experience to help people think outside the box?
Are they a spotlight ranger? Sharpshooter? Know it all?
All too often in the NCOES academic environment I see students that are willing to watch another fail to better their own chances at the top 20%. I make sure to mention things like that in their counselings so they are aware that I am watching.
When you are receiving your counselings just ask the SGL where you need to improve.
Are they helping others who are having trouble? Willing to stay after class in study groups or establishing study groups to help others?
Do they quell arguments and bring the group together during decision making ?
Do they utilize past experience to help people think outside the box?
Are they a spotlight ranger? Sharpshooter? Know it all?
All too often in the NCOES academic environment I see students that are willing to watch another fail to better their own chances at the top 20%. I make sure to mention things like that in their counselings so they are aware that I am watching.
When you are receiving your counselings just ask the SGL where you need to improve.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Thank you for your input, SFC Steven. I personally believe though that leadership is a very difficult attribute to "grade". I say this because while at the NCOES I lived the values of an NCO, as I would anywhere else. I cared for fellow NCOs, helped out with some of their issues, stayed behind to help accomplish the mission/details but at the time of me doing all this the SGL was not around. I am not an attention seeker or a "spotlight ranger", I simply did these things because thats the way I am. On the other hand, another NCO, that was simply a loud mouth and opposed everything the SGL said with a smart comment ended up taking my place in the commondants list. This swap was done literally the day before graduation.
Come to find out that academically, I scored higher (98.5%) but what helped this other NCO surpass me was his "leadership" grade. Which, by the way, was added into the the scoring equation twice. Yes, this was done for everyone, but I believe this to be a skewed scoring method for the reason I mentioned above. The SGL is not always there!Why have such an attribute as Leadership as the most important and heavily weighing grade when its impossible to fairly asses, unless of course you're that "spot-light seeker"?
Come to find out that academically, I scored higher (98.5%) but what helped this other NCO surpass me was his "leadership" grade. Which, by the way, was added into the the scoring equation twice. Yes, this was done for everyone, but I believe this to be a skewed scoring method for the reason I mentioned above. The SGL is not always there!Why have such an attribute as Leadership as the most important and heavily weighing grade when its impossible to fairly asses, unless of course you're that "spot-light seeker"?
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Did you ask your SGL? Is there something you're not quite seeing and maybe they aren't counting the score twice? Seems a bit weird, but don't have enough information.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
1SG, I definitely asked. What pushed me to do so was being congratulated for being on the Commandant's List and the day before graduation being told I was off it. I asked why the change in status, how we were graded, what equation was used to come up with the final score and while this portion was being broken down for me is when I noticed this "issue". The Leadership score was used within the "Total soldier concept" and then again when adding the "Total Soldier Concept", Academics and Leadership to determine the final GPA.
Example using a scale from 1-5
Note- total soldier concept (TSC) score is composed of 7 scores/grades assesed by the SGL.
soldier #1 gets:
Academic score of 4
Leadership is 5
TSC 3,3,3,4,5,2,4=24 avarage is 3.42 (5 being the leadership score again)
GPA= 4+5+3.42=12.42/3= 4.14
Soldier #2
Academic score of 5
Leadership is 3
TSC 3,3,3,4,3,2,4=22 avarage is 3.14 (3 being the leadership score again)
GPA= 3+3.14+5=21.14/3=3.71
Now notice how even though both soldiers score exactly the same and soldier #2 scored higher academically his GPA was decreased significantly by the use of the "leadership grade" not only in his TSC but again in the final 3-grade equation.
Granted, if the Leadership grade is removed from the TSC the difference wouldn't be too great, if its removed from the 3-grade equation though, the tables would turn.
Ultimately your chances of getting within the top 20% depend on a heavily-opinionated, half assesed, popularity contest ruled grade. The leadership grade, if anything should be removed for many reasons- but thats a discussion in itself.
Example using a scale from 1-5
Note- total soldier concept (TSC) score is composed of 7 scores/grades assesed by the SGL.
soldier #1 gets:
Academic score of 4
Leadership is 5
TSC 3,3,3,4,5,2,4=24 avarage is 3.42 (5 being the leadership score again)
GPA= 4+5+3.42=12.42/3= 4.14
Soldier #2
Academic score of 5
Leadership is 3
TSC 3,3,3,4,3,2,4=22 avarage is 3.14 (3 being the leadership score again)
GPA= 3+3.14+5=21.14/3=3.71
Now notice how even though both soldiers score exactly the same and soldier #2 scored higher academically his GPA was decreased significantly by the use of the "leadership grade" not only in his TSC but again in the final 3-grade equation.
Granted, if the Leadership grade is removed from the TSC the difference wouldn't be too great, if its removed from the 3-grade equation though, the tables would turn.
Ultimately your chances of getting within the top 20% depend on a heavily-opinionated, half assesed, popularity contest ruled grade. The leadership grade, if anything should be removed for many reasons- but thats a discussion in itself.
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