Posted on May 18, 2015
How do you treat Service Members with a Shaving Profile?
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Do you discriminate against Service Members with a Shaving Profile?
Do you approach a Service Member if you think they haven't shaved?
How do you approach them?
I have seen leaders talk about Soldiers, and spread rumors that the Soldier doesn't care because they don't shave, or shave well, when the leaders have not confronted the Soldier about their shaving, when the Soldier had a shaving profile. I have seen Soldiers who are consistently confronted about their shaving despite having a profile. How does your unit handle Soldiers who have a shaving profile?
Army Regulation 670-1 1-8 2(c), states that “males will keep their face clean shaven when in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted; if worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line or extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth.
Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized. If appropriate medical authority prescribes beard growth, the length required for medical treatment must be specified. For example, “The length of the beard will not exceed 1⁄4 inch” (see TB MED 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by appropriate medical authority, but they are not authorized to shape the growth into goatee, or “Fu Manchu” or handlebar mustaches.”
Pictured CPT at the William Beaumont Army Medical Center who has a profile for shaving.
Do you approach a Service Member if you think they haven't shaved?
How do you approach them?
I have seen leaders talk about Soldiers, and spread rumors that the Soldier doesn't care because they don't shave, or shave well, when the leaders have not confronted the Soldier about their shaving, when the Soldier had a shaving profile. I have seen Soldiers who are consistently confronted about their shaving despite having a profile. How does your unit handle Soldiers who have a shaving profile?
Army Regulation 670-1 1-8 2(c), states that “males will keep their face clean shaven when in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted; if worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line or extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth.
Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized. If appropriate medical authority prescribes beard growth, the length required for medical treatment must be specified. For example, “The length of the beard will not exceed 1⁄4 inch” (see TB MED 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by appropriate medical authority, but they are not authorized to shape the growth into goatee, or “Fu Manchu” or handlebar mustaches.”
Pictured CPT at the William Beaumont Army Medical Center who has a profile for shaving.
Shaving
Profiles
Health
Medical
Discrimination
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 36
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I remember all the crap I took when I had a "no haircut" chit. Of course we were out to sea on a submarine. I was on medicated shampoo for an issue with my scalp. But just as we were about to pull into port the XO ordered me to get a hair cut and "screw the chit". The boat barber made sure I was the last one he gave a hair cut to and had the boat buy new blades.
Oh and during that time we could have beards.
Oh and during that time we could have beards.
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Being a Marine, I never even heard of a no-shaving chit. There were dark-green Marines that used some kind of shaving alternative I believe, but no one was walking around with anything remotely resembling a beard.
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Honestly? I'm gonna challenge them on the profile. If it's legit (carrying the profile), CM. If it's not, I'm gonna recommend the hammer.
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WO1 (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) As a 1SG you or the Commander should know about the profile, but unless it's a company policy there is no reg for Soldiers to carry the profile. If the Soldier is not yours you'd have to follow up with their chain of command.
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SPC Robert Patrick
was never on a no shaving profile but I know when I injured my back and was put on profile the NCO's in my unit didn't care what my limitations were if i didn't have my profile on me.
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If you had a no shaving profile you would have to pin it to your uniform because ever NCO and Officer that doesn't personally know you will get in your face. Lol
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WO1 (Join to see)
People don't do the same thing for soft shoe profiles, which I think look worse. There is no reg requiring Soldiers to carry their profile, though they should, if you don't believe them go to their first line leader, or Commander.
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Speaking strictly from the Air Force point of view and my own personal experiences, I offer the following; The first problem with shaving waivers is that the medical community/providers give them out to anyone who can produce a face that grows hair. Secondly, Commanders no longer have to sign them to make them official/valid (as was in years past), which removes unit leadership from the equation. 95% of those who "claim" to have a shaving waiver don't carry them (present SNCO - MSgt Copeland - excluded). Furthermore, there are two schools where shaving waivers are concerned. The sculptors and the compliers. The sculptors think wearing a goatee, or "lining up" their beard to have a thin clean line along their jawbone is good to go. These folks also like to push the envelop when standard measurement are concerned i.e. 1/4" or 3/4" it's all the same. The compliers are the ones who suffer, and ultimately the medical providers are just too lazy, and it's just too easy to give a shaving waiver to anyone who asks for one so they do. This frees up valuable treatment time that can be dedicated to sick people. Just like anywhere else in the military, those who bend/break the rules ruin it for all the rest who comply. They cast doubt on innocent people, and breed cynicism throughout the ranks. That's why I instinctively despise shaving waivers, because I have seen, and do believe there are a large number of people out there that don't need them and who are simply abusing the system for the trivial thrill they get out of doing so. Do I treat them differently? I don't know, I never gave it much thought, but if they don't have the waiver on them, I certainly read them the riot act.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
SMSgt (Join to see), Commanders still have to sign off on them by AFI. Max length for AF is 1/4 inch. Here is the reference for both.
AFI 26-2903
3.1.2.3.
Beards. Beards are not authorized (exception in paragraph 3.1.2.3.1) unless for medical reasons, when authorized by a commander on the advice of a medical official. If commander authorizes, members will keep all facial hair trimmed not to exceed ¼ inch in length. Individuals granted a shaving waiver will not shave or trim any facial hair in such a manner as to give a sculptured appearance. Commanders and supervisors will monitor progress in treatment to control these waivers. If necessary for medical reasons, facial hair will be kept neat and conservative (moderate, being within required limits (not more than ¼ inch); not excessive or extreme), as defined by the local commander.
3.1.2.3.1.
During tours of less than 30 days, Air Force Reserve (AFR) and Air
National Guard (ANG) chaplains not on extended active duty may request a beard waiver for religious observance when consistent with their faith. For AFR waiver processing instructions see AFMAN 36-8001, Participation and Training Procedures For ANG waiver process instructions contact ANG/HC.
So now that is cleared up, It seems like you might have a poorly managed program at your location. Most bases have a multi-stage program for shaving waivers beginning with a healing portion, an education portion and finally the long term shaving waiver. Many bases (mine included) have started issuing shaving waivers for 90 days at a time vs the typical 1 year to reign in some of the less than upstanding folks.
As to " I never gave it much thought, but if they don't have the waiver on them, I certainly read them the riot act." In 16 years, not a single soul has been able to produce any AFI that says you MUST have it on you. I always do, because frankly the juice isn't worth the squeeze, yet no one has been able to point to an AFI. Everyone says something along the lines of "I have always been told" but no reference...
AFI 26-2903
3.1.2.3.
Beards. Beards are not authorized (exception in paragraph 3.1.2.3.1) unless for medical reasons, when authorized by a commander on the advice of a medical official. If commander authorizes, members will keep all facial hair trimmed not to exceed ¼ inch in length. Individuals granted a shaving waiver will not shave or trim any facial hair in such a manner as to give a sculptured appearance. Commanders and supervisors will monitor progress in treatment to control these waivers. If necessary for medical reasons, facial hair will be kept neat and conservative (moderate, being within required limits (not more than ¼ inch); not excessive or extreme), as defined by the local commander.
3.1.2.3.1.
During tours of less than 30 days, Air Force Reserve (AFR) and Air
National Guard (ANG) chaplains not on extended active duty may request a beard waiver for religious observance when consistent with their faith. For AFR waiver processing instructions see AFMAN 36-8001, Participation and Training Procedures For ANG waiver process instructions contact ANG/HC.
So now that is cleared up, It seems like you might have a poorly managed program at your location. Most bases have a multi-stage program for shaving waivers beginning with a healing portion, an education portion and finally the long term shaving waiver. Many bases (mine included) have started issuing shaving waivers for 90 days at a time vs the typical 1 year to reign in some of the less than upstanding folks.
As to " I never gave it much thought, but if they don't have the waiver on them, I certainly read them the riot act." In 16 years, not a single soul has been able to produce any AFI that says you MUST have it on you. I always do, because frankly the juice isn't worth the squeeze, yet no one has been able to point to an AFI. Everyone says something along the lines of "I have always been told" but no reference...
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SMSgt (Join to see)
You carry it on you to prove you have a medical reason for not shaving, and that your commander has authorized you to deviate from 36-2903. Otherwise what's to prevent everyone from growing a beard? As a SNCO rationalizing with "Where does it say I have to...?" is a step in the wrong direction, and breeds subordinate Airmen and NCOs to question the decisions of their leaders including you. As SNCOs we need to be explaining the rationale behind why Shaving Waivers are carried. It doesn't say anywhere I can't wear Sage green Clown Shoes but we all know I can't. Waiting around for the Air Force to publish each and every thing in writing not only leaves you inactive and in a holding pattern, but it takes the leadership out of your hands and leaves you depending on Big Blue to direct your actions. That's not leadership, that's enforcement of standards. The Air Force needs more leaders, and fewer enforcers.
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WO1 (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland SMSgt (Join to see)
I know that the Army does not have a policy requiring Soldiers to carry a copy of their profile on them. I always carry a copy of my profile. If you find a Service Member you can contact their chain of command. SMSgt do you question other profiles? Or are only shaving profiles where military docs all of a sudden lose their minds?
I know that the Army does not have a policy requiring Soldiers to carry a copy of their profile on them. I always carry a copy of my profile. If you find a Service Member you can contact their chain of command. SMSgt do you question other profiles? Or are only shaving profiles where military docs all of a sudden lose their minds?
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SMSgt (Join to see)
I do NOT question the validity of their profiles...publically. I'm not a doctor in any sense of the word. I have no choice but to trust that the doctors know what they're doing...publically. However, I have many friends in the medical community, particularly here, and I have asked the question to these friends that the providers revisit the frequency of giving out 365-day shaving waivers. I don't know if it's getting better or not, I don't have hard data to support, but I was an MTI (drill instructor) and I am UBER-Familiar with how diagnosing and issuing a shaving waiver "should" work (no shave, observed shaving techniques, training, additional observation of the affected area, diagnose) and that was not happening here at my base. That, I questioned at the appropriate level. The individual Airman who clearly hasn't shaved, I simply ask if he has his waiver on him. If he doesn't, I explain to him why he needs to carry it with him. Perhaps my use of the phrase "Read them the riot act" was an overstatement. I don't chew anybody out for not carrying their waiver, but I DO explain to them why the need to. If they become argumentative (which is rare) they have then chosen to escalate things, and then the proverbial butt-chewing commences.
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