Posted on Jun 1, 2014
How does everyone feel about PFC Bergdahl? How does one get meritoriously promoted for being a deserter?
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Bergdahl
POW/MIA
Desertion
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Let's get him on Rally Point so he can be back- briefed on all he's missed.
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Suspended Profile
Going against our policy of no negotiations with terrorists was not in our best interests nationally. Regardless of the situation, whether he's a deserter or a P.O.W., our policies were altered, which opens us up more to threats and danger. This only shows that there is way more to this than anyone of us know and hopefully a majority of it will come out in the wash here shortly...and I dont just mean the background of bergdal.
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG Wicke, what policy is everyone talking about. I notice many respondent to be very naïve. They need to take a class in U.S. Foreign Policy. There has always been negotiation in the background either directly or indirectly. I am pretty sure some senior advisors at the National Security level determined it be in the best interest to bring him home a live. The president took a big gamble during an election year which his opponents are using against him. I fully support bringing every Soldier home and let the debriefing and investigation take its course. My last two cent before any one comment for or against the Soldier in question, put themselves in that situation or someone they care about and the response would be very differently.
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US Prisoners of War are promoted with their peers while held captive. It is not a meritorious promotion.
In Vietnam there were American service members who were held for 5 years or more. As a POW, you are still a service member, still serving your country, and you are supposed to do everything in your capability to still oppose your enemy, who may be attempting to exploit and torture you. You are expected to still honor and enforce the chain of command, even as a POW. You are therefore still serving your country, and as a POW, it makes sense that this service is recognized.
In Vietnam there were American service members who were held for 5 years or more. As a POW, you are still a service member, still serving your country, and you are supposed to do everything in your capability to still oppose your enemy, who may be attempting to exploit and torture you. You are expected to still honor and enforce the chain of command, even as a POW. You are therefore still serving your country, and as a POW, it makes sense that this service is recognized.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Ortega: Your opinion of SGT Bergdahl may or may not have merit. You are stating your personal opinion. He may well have been a dirt bag. He may also have just been one of those people who pisses everybody off. It is not for you to be judge, jury, and executioner.
The commander of Bergdahl, whether it be his Battalion Commander, Brigade Commander, or even Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, will have the ultimate say in whether he faces a trial by Courts Martial or not. That decision will be based on evidence collected by investigators, and forwarded to the prosecuting JAG and Commander. IF there is not enough evidence, Bergdahl is presumed innocent, and rightly so. You can't convict someone based on hearsay - that is what happened during the Salem Witch Trials when young women were prosecuted and burned at the stake just because they had red hair.
If there is enough evidence, a convening authority will decide to prosecute, and if he is guilty of desertion, then he will receive punishment. This punishment will most likely include the loss of his rank and pay, as well as confinement.
Save the judgement - don't be so quick to condemn, even if you personally know Bergdahl - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is not just a verse from the Bible.
What have you done that you wouldn't want the world to know about?
The commander of Bergdahl, whether it be his Battalion Commander, Brigade Commander, or even Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, will have the ultimate say in whether he faces a trial by Courts Martial or not. That decision will be based on evidence collected by investigators, and forwarded to the prosecuting JAG and Commander. IF there is not enough evidence, Bergdahl is presumed innocent, and rightly so. You can't convict someone based on hearsay - that is what happened during the Salem Witch Trials when young women were prosecuted and burned at the stake just because they had red hair.
If there is enough evidence, a convening authority will decide to prosecute, and if he is guilty of desertion, then he will receive punishment. This punishment will most likely include the loss of his rank and pay, as well as confinement.
Save the judgement - don't be so quick to condemn, even if you personally know Bergdahl - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is not just a verse from the Bible.
What have you done that you wouldn't want the world to know about?
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SFC Stephen Carden
SFC Wayman, mama..ma..ma..mama said that all ginger kids were witches! And I have done a lot of stuff that I don't want the world to know about, but one of those things wasn't deserting my unit on the battlefield. If that is what actually happened with Bergdahl. Not saying it is but..........
And please don't yell at me if you are redheaded. I meant no offense, it was all my mama. Plus, I was just lightly making fun of SFC Wayman.
And please don't yell at me if you are redheaded. I meant no offense, it was all my mama. Plus, I was just lightly making fun of SFC Wayman.
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SFC (Join to see)
LOL! SFC Carden - It's a good thing I know you and we're friends! You know I'm just pointing out that WE (as in you, I, and every other knuckle drag-er with a mouth) don't know all the facts. It does appear that he walked out, and it does appear that he abandoned his post, and it does appear that he deserted, but until the military decides to prosecute, charges, and convicts him, we won't really know - if ever... :)
And since you brought it up, I am (or was) a ginger - up until about 15 years ago, when my hair color changed for some reason to brown. Now it's going gray... And I'm pretty sure you're in that boat too!
And since you brought it up, I am (or was) a ginger - up until about 15 years ago, when my hair color changed for some reason to brown. Now it's going gray... And I'm pretty sure you're in that boat too!
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC Wayman, I couldn't have said better by offering him due process. In my current position as SARC. I have victims approaching me on when the offender is going to get convicted and what's taking so long? The only answer I have for them, that the accused have a due process. Therefore, allow this SGT his due process. As I said in a previous post, I don't think the President took this decision very lately without some serious consideration and advice from his national security team.
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His status is clearly POW and the circumstances of his capture are competely secondary in importance to our duty to exercise whatever options are best to bring him back home safely. He is an American Soldier in the hands of the Haqqani Network. That is the most important thing to remember. We can not forget that.
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Newell, I understand why you might have this position, and I am deeply concerned about the prescedent this particular prisoner swap may set. However, I am still of the belief that we should NEVER leave a Soldier behind. Even if he's a dick.
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SGM (Join to see)
I totally agree that we should never leave a Soldier behind. Let the investigation sort it out before anyone pass judgment. The truth shell surface soon or later.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I agree CPT Johnson. He is a captured U.S. Soldier to Haqqani, desserter or otherwise. Might not be a high value captive, but a captive nonetheless. He is propaganda subject. He put the U.S. in a bad position no doubt, but it was still better to get him out of there. If it's proven that he desserted, he really should answer to that charge.
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SPC Brett Curry
Men died looking for him.....I agree with bringing him home...home to face man slauter charges for each soldier who died looking for him. The video that came out and was taken down almost as quick as it popped up shows him just walking away from his post. What happened to him after he gets out of the view of the camera is for the investigation team to figure out what happened, if they can. But the bottom line is if he did walk away from his post, we wldn't be having this conversation, and those men wld probably still be alive....
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The trade was about par for western soldiers. Israel has paid more in the past. I believe a state of war exists between his captors and us therefore this is a prisoner exchange.
I maxed out my down votes and this is why:
Personally I have no desire to know how he was captured. This is about us, service members, until you renounce your citizenship or status in the US Military we will come for you. It is what we do it is who we are. The idea that a smear campaign could prevent us coming to rescue a fellow soldier is corrosive and insulting to every one who wears the uniform.
I have served with people I did not like, I have gone on patrol with people I did not respect. I never for a second would hesitate to risk my life for them and am totally certain the reverse was true. It is who we are, it is what we do. If you want to undermine that kindly go burn your flag elsewhere.
Well that's my opinion, I could be wrong.
I maxed out my down votes and this is why:
Personally I have no desire to know how he was captured. This is about us, service members, until you renounce your citizenship or status in the US Military we will come for you. It is what we do it is who we are. The idea that a smear campaign could prevent us coming to rescue a fellow soldier is corrosive and insulting to every one who wears the uniform.
I have served with people I did not like, I have gone on patrol with people I did not respect. I never for a second would hesitate to risk my life for them and am totally certain the reverse was true. It is who we are, it is what we do. If you want to undermine that kindly go burn your flag elsewhere.
Well that's my opinion, I could be wrong.
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I agree with your assessment. IMHO I think we need to wait for a full investigation to be completed prior to rendering a judgement. Although I must admit, the rumors of what his battle buddies are saying in calling him a deserter are pretty convincing. Also, I am very happy that he is back safe and will soon be with his family. That is number one priority regardless of what has happens. Another thought I have, is I wonder how much intel he provided the taliban, and if he was responsible for any casualties/attacks. This will indeed get interesting.
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I don't usually chime in but this has the hair on the back of my neck at Attention....... This should go down as the worst political move made by a sitting POTUS.... I believe this falls not only under the category of Deserter but also Treason.... and to let 5 high ranking members of the same terrorist go back to their territory and Group(s)... A slap in the face of all the men & women that fought & died to capture these thugs.... and to be heralded by media & the POTUS as being some kind of a victim??? Is he not reading the same stories I am from his former unit.... room mate, Squad leader, Plt. Sgt.. I am furious & disappointed that our CIC would stoop to this level....
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SSG Daniel Deiler
Yes they are terrorists. They are/were high level members of the Taliban, a terrorist organization. That's like saying that those of us who have never fired a shot at a combatant are not Soldiers. You think just because they have been detained for 12 years and don't construct bombs they are worthless? My oh my how short sighted is that assessment! I believe your anti right media and political views and emotions are clouding your judgment. On top of that the terms of the non disclosure agreements expired! Don't you think if they were in violation of those terms they'd have already been arrested? C'mon now.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Parker, it's unnecessary to demean the Soldiers of that platoon. Someone in government already beat you to it.
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SFC Matthew Parker
SSG Daniel,
They don't meet the legal definition of terrorist. They were never officially listed as terrorists and were never charged with terrorism. To qualify, an organization must meet only three criteria: It must be foreign, it must engage in terrorist activity and its activity must threaten the security of the U.S. or its citizens. The Taliban were happy with killing their own people. They have not yet been listed, although the Taliban in Pakistan will be soon.
The five were high level members of the Taliban, a political organization in power in Afghanistan until overthrown. Yes, one was a general and one a Intel chief, but after 12 years what threat do you think they pose? You think they will build a bomb or pick up a gun? Not happening. Now there is a story two of them may have been helping US intel. BLUF Not terrorists. Criminals or sympathizers.
SSG go see your S-2 and read a NDA and see if it expires or not, each depends on the reason and level. But my point is we don't speak with the media, we don't talk about our house. Go to the Army investigators, write your member of congress, but we don't shoot our mouth off on TV.
There was a SPC 4 on this morning who said half of what your hear is BS, there is a report that says the unit was lax and so on. We don't need to release anything and we shouldn't.
SSG Andres,
Any member of that platoon who goes on TV and says anything before the Army completes it's investigation and possible 15-6 is wrong. They are being used by the right and left wing media and allowing their emotions to damage the very investigation they want completed. As a perspective witness every soldier from that platoon who makes a statement damages the Army's ability to investigate the desertion charge. You know that as does every other NCO.
I want this PFC investigated, I want justice for the 6 soldiers that may have been killed looking for this soldier but I want the soldier to receive full due process. This is why the NDA was signed, at some point the Army knew it would need to investigate this.
In the last 24 hours the unit and chain of command has been challenged and they are using the platoon members statements to do it. The soldiers stories have been questioned by the other side of this debate and the family is receiving threats.
Why? Because we can't keep our mouths shut and we can't control what we say after we say it.
And SSG, telling a soldier/witness to shut up is not demeaning, it's a requirement if you want the process to work.
They don't meet the legal definition of terrorist. They were never officially listed as terrorists and were never charged with terrorism. To qualify, an organization must meet only three criteria: It must be foreign, it must engage in terrorist activity and its activity must threaten the security of the U.S. or its citizens. The Taliban were happy with killing their own people. They have not yet been listed, although the Taliban in Pakistan will be soon.
The five were high level members of the Taliban, a political organization in power in Afghanistan until overthrown. Yes, one was a general and one a Intel chief, but after 12 years what threat do you think they pose? You think they will build a bomb or pick up a gun? Not happening. Now there is a story two of them may have been helping US intel. BLUF Not terrorists. Criminals or sympathizers.
SSG go see your S-2 and read a NDA and see if it expires or not, each depends on the reason and level. But my point is we don't speak with the media, we don't talk about our house. Go to the Army investigators, write your member of congress, but we don't shoot our mouth off on TV.
There was a SPC 4 on this morning who said half of what your hear is BS, there is a report that says the unit was lax and so on. We don't need to release anything and we shouldn't.
SSG Andres,
Any member of that platoon who goes on TV and says anything before the Army completes it's investigation and possible 15-6 is wrong. They are being used by the right and left wing media and allowing their emotions to damage the very investigation they want completed. As a perspective witness every soldier from that platoon who makes a statement damages the Army's ability to investigate the desertion charge. You know that as does every other NCO.
I want this PFC investigated, I want justice for the 6 soldiers that may have been killed looking for this soldier but I want the soldier to receive full due process. This is why the NDA was signed, at some point the Army knew it would need to investigate this.
In the last 24 hours the unit and chain of command has been challenged and they are using the platoon members statements to do it. The soldiers stories have been questioned by the other side of this debate and the family is receiving threats.
Why? Because we can't keep our mouths shut and we can't control what we say after we say it.
And SSG, telling a soldier/witness to shut up is not demeaning, it's a requirement if you want the process to work.
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1LT Gerald O'Hare
All rank promotions can be reduced. They are not written in stone. If he ever goes to a court Marshall and found guilty then it would be part of his punishment. The real problem is will his case be forgotten and never brought to trial. He must be investigated and then based on facts charged with a crime. I believe that there is enough information to charge him.
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Terminal Lance - Terminal Lance “Conversion Rate”
Honestly I don’t really know what to say about either one of these stories. I mean, really, I don’t. Unless you’ve been living in a Taliban cave for the last couple of weeks, you’ve probably heard about the story of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl being traded back to the US for five Taliban members. While the conversion rate seems odd, the entire veteran community seems to be pretty pissed off about it. I’m far removed from the event, and my introduction...
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GySgt (Join to see)
Well he was one of the few who managed to stay alive for five years. That throws a flag for me. He also left his weapons and went outside the wire, flag number two. When his father spoke at the White House the first words he spoke were Arabic, and his father was tweeting some peculiar stuff. Flag number three. For someone to be held captive that long by the taliban and not get his head cut off I would believe he is a sympathizer or is providing information or both. I say he is a traitor. Either way he walked out of the patrol base, other soldiers went looking for him and some were subsequently killed in the process. They died looking for a guy who chose to leave his post. High em' high and brand him a traitor!
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
At this point we cannot make a true determination as to there are to many unanswered questions. I hope the military does a investigation that is honest and thorough to ensure they get they correct answer to handle the situation properly.
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I'd like to read the 15-6 investigation when its complete. Then I will form my opinion.
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SGT (Join to see)
I agree with that. I jumped the gun based on the sentiment from the paratroopers who served in p2k. I
served a year after the 4/25 and before they returned. We got hit a lot. They had way too much intel on us. Let's see what happens.
served a year after the 4/25 and before they returned. We got hit a lot. They had way too much intel on us. Let's see what happens.
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It's all smoke and mirrors to take the attention away from the huge VA scandal. And guess what? It worked.
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CPO (Join to see)
The wheels keep turning while the status (guilty/not) is unknown. When Bergdal is home the inquiry can begin. A lot of people have a bunch of questions that need to be answered. I'm glad the kid is out of the hands of the Taliban, no matter how he got there. And it didn't distract me from the VA scandal one bit.
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SFC (Join to see)
Since this whole portion of the thread is opining and based on speculation mixed with hostility, I would like to point out that one cannot totally rule out that a media distraction isn't somewhat at play here...
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SSG (Join to see)
Prosecute his ass with the full weight of the UCMJ. He abandoned his unit and cost six soldiers their lives searching for him.
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