Posted on Oct 25, 2014
How long will it take before not deploying is normal and not counted against you during promotion boads?
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It seems like with the downsizing of the force they look at everything to set you apart from others. Deployment has been one of those items even before 9/11. So now that combat operations will being "non-existent" and very small forces left in Afghanistan when do you think it will be normal to not have deployed and it not count against you during promotion boards? Obviously it might be sooner for 1LTs going to CPT or E4 to E5, but how long for MAJ to LTC for E7 to E8?
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Deployment
Promotions
Promotion Board
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 9
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Some of my soldiers have complained about their promotion points for the deployed category (E-4>E-5>E-6) and how they are not competitive against their peers with only a single deployment, etc... My argument has been that given time deployments will become less common and that the average points their peers have in that category will either force the average points to be promoted for their MOS to fall or for the category to be adjusted in future Army policy.
I suspect that the Combat Support and Combat Service Support branches will be the first to feel the effects of reduced deployments/short term deployments. I just hope that the return to a garrison mindset doesn't mean returning to leadership by board jockeys... I never understood the "value" of answering trivia questions and the relationship to mission success.
I suspect that the Combat Support and Combat Service Support branches will be the first to feel the effects of reduced deployments/short term deployments. I just hope that the return to a garrison mindset doesn't mean returning to leadership by board jockeys... I never understood the "value" of answering trivia questions and the relationship to mission success.
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MSG (Join to see)
1SG David Spalding, I have mixed feelings about points for PT. On the one hand, it can represent dedication to the profession of arms. On the other, I have seen a fair number of "PT studs" who get the points edge and are promoted but couldn't lead themselves out of a HMMWV while some who are excellent both in their MOS and as leaders but get edged out.
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1SG David Spalding
True, very true. We could set up a million different point scales, and they would still fail in one way or another. But until my crystal ball starts working again, I'll stick with what works (most of the time).
SSG. you're due to, or already have, been considered for E7. Now the wat they conduct Sr Enlisted Boards is a REALLY jacked up way to rank for the PRL. Either you're recommended or not, and you fall on the list by DOR. When I was up for E7, out of the 38 from my division, there were two of us who had deployed, had graduated Battle Staff, had US and foreign jump wings, and had Bronze Stars. We were the bottom two on the PRL because we had the least TIG. What a crock!
SSG. you're due to, or already have, been considered for E7. Now the wat they conduct Sr Enlisted Boards is a REALLY jacked up way to rank for the PRL. Either you're recommended or not, and you fall on the list by DOR. When I was up for E7, out of the 38 from my division, there were two of us who had deployed, had graduated Battle Staff, had US and foreign jump wings, and had Bronze Stars. We were the bottom two on the PRL because we had the least TIG. What a crock!
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MSG David Johnson
While on AD as an E-5, my PSG wouldn't send me to the E-6 board until I had gone through a few of the monthly Soldier/NCO boards. It was a great experience for my career, I was also invited to compete in the Sergeant Morales Club boards.
I had won the Company level NCO of the month and quarter, Battalion level month and quarter, at the NCO of the month for the Seperate Battalions of the 8th ID I lost by 1/2 point.
As a field Soldier my entire career I see these boards as a huge stepping stone for Soldiers who are looking to make the military a career, and for NCO's to get their name and face in front of Senior NCO's that can potentially help their career down the road.
SSG Aaron Sweeney, I do agree there are those who are promoted above their leadership level because of what you refer to as being "Board Jockey's", and I feel deeply that the Army needs to bring back the Specialist rank for just this specific reason.
But there are those who benefit from these boards, I for one benefited greatly from these boards, and the feedback I received from the NCO's who were board members.
I had won the Company level NCO of the month and quarter, Battalion level month and quarter, at the NCO of the month for the Seperate Battalions of the 8th ID I lost by 1/2 point.
As a field Soldier my entire career I see these boards as a huge stepping stone for Soldiers who are looking to make the military a career, and for NCO's to get their name and face in front of Senior NCO's that can potentially help their career down the road.
SSG Aaron Sweeney, I do agree there are those who are promoted above their leadership level because of what you refer to as being "Board Jockey's", and I feel deeply that the Army needs to bring back the Specialist rank for just this specific reason.
But there are those who benefit from these boards, I for one benefited greatly from these boards, and the feedback I received from the NCO's who were board members.
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1SG (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) considering Army regulations, technical manuals, and Army history as trivia is an interesting concept.
Admittedly, I've seen Soldiers who do well at boards, not be as "good" a leader, as others who are excellent leaders, but don't perform as well at boards.
With regard to points for boards, the number of COAs that can be counted is limited (memory only, but as I recollect maybe a total of 2 for 10 points). I don't recall any medals at, or below, brigade level. Considering the effort to get to, and win, above that level, I don't see it as less of an effort than an AAM or ARCOM for a major exercise (speaking of "garrison Army").
ARCOM for SAMC or SMC isn't unreasonable, and it's not given for trivia jockeys. Leader books there weren't for show, and you'd better know your Soldiers well.
MSM or ARCOM for a DIV or ASCC demonstrates a significant effort.
Yes, I've seen some "board" Soldiers who were great, until they reached the field, but I found those either learned to lead, or weeded themselves out.
Admittedly, I've seen Soldiers who do well at boards, not be as "good" a leader, as others who are excellent leaders, but don't perform as well at boards.
With regard to points for boards, the number of COAs that can be counted is limited (memory only, but as I recollect maybe a total of 2 for 10 points). I don't recall any medals at, or below, brigade level. Considering the effort to get to, and win, above that level, I don't see it as less of an effort than an AAM or ARCOM for a major exercise (speaking of "garrison Army").
ARCOM for SAMC or SMC isn't unreasonable, and it's not given for trivia jockeys. Leader books there weren't for show, and you'd better know your Soldiers well.
MSM or ARCOM for a DIV or ASCC demonstrates a significant effort.
Yes, I've seen some "board" Soldiers who were great, until they reached the field, but I found those either learned to lead, or weeded themselves out.
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When I was a young Soldier, my three buddies and I were literally the first Soldiers to report to the unit after they redeployed from the Gulf War. We heard all about it from PFCs that had been in the Army six months longer than us about how much better they were than us. Never mind that they saw all of six hours of action...
Afterwards, it took about five years to normalize, as there were big downsizing activity in the Army then as well.
I would anticipate a similar timeframe this time around. It'll take longer at the senior levels - as it should. Personally, I think there are very few valid excuses (don't beat me up, I know you are out there TRADOC/ NCOA/ "I volunteered, but they wouldn't let me" guy) that would get me to buy into the idea that anyone boarding for E-7 and up who didn't do their job in a war that lasted over 13 years and never got into the big game has any business leading a formation of combat-tested Soldiers for several years to come.
Afterwards, it took about five years to normalize, as there were big downsizing activity in the Army then as well.
I would anticipate a similar timeframe this time around. It'll take longer at the senior levels - as it should. Personally, I think there are very few valid excuses (don't beat me up, I know you are out there TRADOC/ NCOA/ "I volunteered, but they wouldn't let me" guy) that would get me to buy into the idea that anyone boarding for E-7 and up who didn't do their job in a war that lasted over 13 years and never got into the big game has any business leading a formation of combat-tested Soldiers for several years to come.
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1SG (Join to see)
I concur that if someone is around 10 years in and hasn't deployed at this point, it would give me pause. There are certainly those who served where the Army assigned them, but I'd expect that number to be small.
I had a buddy in the 82nd who missed Grenada and Panama because he had changed brigades just before both. He was on DS during DS and tried to volunteer. The G1 guy was cutting his orders, bit when he asked his unit, he figured out he was still on DS duty. He told him, "DS, your privates will go before you do." He was correct.
I had a buddy in the 82nd who missed Grenada and Panama because he had changed brigades just before both. He was on DS during DS and tried to volunteer. The G1 guy was cutting his orders, bit when he asked his unit, he figured out he was still on DS duty. He told him, "DS, your privates will go before you do." He was correct.
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I think promotion points for deployments is a terrible idea. Promotion points should be based on performance and areas that Soldiers can directly control. Unless a Soldier individually volunteered to get deployed he or she should not get promotion points for deployments.
Example: Two Soldiers join the Army at the same time and go to Basic and AIT. Soldier A gets orders to 82nd and Soldier B gets orders to Korea. Soldier A gets to go airborne and deploy because they are in 82nd. Soldier B doesn't get to do either because they got stationed in Korea. Neither one of these Soldiers had a say in where they got stationed so why should one get extra promotion points?
Plus there were Soldiers on my deployments that literally worked three hours a day. They spent more time in the MWR than at their actual work area. Should those Soldiers receive promotion points for that?? I don't think so.
Example: Two Soldiers join the Army at the same time and go to Basic and AIT. Soldier A gets orders to 82nd and Soldier B gets orders to Korea. Soldier A gets to go airborne and deploy because they are in 82nd. Soldier B doesn't get to do either because they got stationed in Korea. Neither one of these Soldiers had a say in where they got stationed so why should one get extra promotion points?
Plus there were Soldiers on my deployments that literally worked three hours a day. They spent more time in the MWR than at their actual work area. Should those Soldiers receive promotion points for that?? I don't think so.
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