Posted on Aug 24, 2014
How many NCOs get sick when they hear Soldiers referring to each other by first names and hear other NCOs doing it or allowing it.
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I got it Officers do it all the time. Ok, but that is officers and I have no say in that; What I do care about is when it is enlisted doing it or a Officer referring to an enlisted that way and vice verse. I just want to slap someone. Am I wrong?
Professionalism
NCO Creed
Respect
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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If it's an 'O' driven event in your unit, then you're going to have to have a long talk with the chain of command and convince them to cease. If it's 'E' driven, your path will be much easier, just tell them it will no longer be tolerated, that one is free, after that it starts going on paper.
If they wanted to work with Bob and Tom and Tammy, they should have joined the Air Force.
If they wanted to work with Bob and Tom and Tammy, they should have joined the Air Force.
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MSG Sommer Brown
lol I agree. It seems that it has been bred into this organization is stemmed from the "top" down. I have corrected but it puts you on the disliked list quick.
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MSG Sommer Brown
I do want to make it clear that it is not everyone in the organization. Only a select few and it just gets my blood boiling.
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MSG Wade Huffman
MSG Sommer Brown , So, the good news it's only a select few, but the bad news is that it only TAKES a select few...not out of the realm of possibility for it to spread throughout the entire unit, especially if it's top down. You may very well have a hard road ahead; but leadership has never been a popularity contest.
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Take those in your COC aside - inform them this is unprofessional and you will not allow it to continue in front of you.
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LTC (Join to see)
IMHO, it shows that they care enough to actually know your first name. Unless it's a formal occasion, I see no problem with addressing subordinates by first name. I never had a problem with it when I was enlisted.
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It depends on your branch, your corps, and your command.
In the Navy, once you make Chief Petty Officer (E-7) you're in the Chief's Mess and it's generally accepted that Chiefs call each other by their first names. That used to be one of the perks in going through Initiation. However, some Chiefs (or "Chiefs," depending on your view of them) play the professional card pretty hard and don't like it. Then you treat them like you would anyone else.
Personally, I think senior enlisted form a closer bond and develop a certain esprit-de-corps through the familiarity of first names. It helps us do more good for our people by breaking down the bureaucratic barriers that are formally instilled in us from Day One. There are some that can't get past the basic military indoctrination that (to some) means "real professionals" use rank only.
I don't buy it. I believe that the U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officers enjoy a brotherhood that other services don't because of this familiarity and it only serves to deepen our bond. Maybe the Army, Marines, and Air Force have this sort of thing as well and I'm just not aware of it not having served in those branches, but the fact that this question is being asked solidifies my belief in this regard.
The BEST thing about being more senior is that you're able to do MORE GOOD for your people. That's the lesson I try to instill in all new Chiefs: They're not "better" now that they wear anchors; they just now have the ability to cut through a lot of red-tape to make things happen for their Sailors now that they have that shiny gold bling on their collar. And that red-tape is a lot easier to slice through if you can approach the situation with some personality by saying, "Hey brother (or sister), I'm hoping you can help me out" rather than, "Chief, I need you to fix this for me."
Humbling yourself by allowing your peers to call you by the name your mama gave you doesn't make you less professional....it makes you more approachable. And, by extension, more effective.
Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.
In the Navy, once you make Chief Petty Officer (E-7) you're in the Chief's Mess and it's generally accepted that Chiefs call each other by their first names. That used to be one of the perks in going through Initiation. However, some Chiefs (or "Chiefs," depending on your view of them) play the professional card pretty hard and don't like it. Then you treat them like you would anyone else.
Personally, I think senior enlisted form a closer bond and develop a certain esprit-de-corps through the familiarity of first names. It helps us do more good for our people by breaking down the bureaucratic barriers that are formally instilled in us from Day One. There are some that can't get past the basic military indoctrination that (to some) means "real professionals" use rank only.
I don't buy it. I believe that the U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officers enjoy a brotherhood that other services don't because of this familiarity and it only serves to deepen our bond. Maybe the Army, Marines, and Air Force have this sort of thing as well and I'm just not aware of it not having served in those branches, but the fact that this question is being asked solidifies my belief in this regard.
The BEST thing about being more senior is that you're able to do MORE GOOD for your people. That's the lesson I try to instill in all new Chiefs: They're not "better" now that they wear anchors; they just now have the ability to cut through a lot of red-tape to make things happen for their Sailors now that they have that shiny gold bling on their collar. And that red-tape is a lot easier to slice through if you can approach the situation with some personality by saying, "Hey brother (or sister), I'm hoping you can help me out" rather than, "Chief, I need you to fix this for me."
Humbling yourself by allowing your peers to call you by the name your mama gave you doesn't make you less professional....it makes you more approachable. And, by extension, more effective.
Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.
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CPO William E. Mahoney
I don't agree with you Chief about letting your juniors call you by your first my Division know that we all worked as a team and they worked with me not for me but they never called me by my name, as for members of the mess all the ones I belonged to you only called another Chief by their first names in the mess.
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CPO (Join to see)
CPO William E. Mahoney, I never advocated allowing juniors to call me by my first name. What I said was that "senior enlisted form a closer bond and develop a certain esprit-de-corps through the familiarity of first names" in describing the Chiefs Mess. I was responding to a fellow senior enlisted leader in a different branch and explaining why I don't think it's inappropriate for senior enlisted (E-7 to E-9...a.k.a. senior enlisted) to call one another by first names.
I get your position -- I've served with enough Chiefs like you to know and appreciate where you stand -- and I respect how you lead. I would only ask that you return the favor....and, in this case, read for comprehension before voting down. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you're right.
I get your position -- I've served with enough Chiefs like you to know and appreciate where you stand -- and I respect how you lead. I would only ask that you return the favor....and, in this case, read for comprehension before voting down. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you're right.
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CPO William E. Mahoney
it was your last paragraph that I miss read (I didn't see peers) that was what made say what I my error, sorry
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PO2 David Hagwood
CPO (Join to see) Sometimes it tends to leave the mess and we hear it. I've even had Chiefs accidentally ask me where one of my Chiefs were; but instead of asking "where's Chief Navy", they asked if I knew where Joe was. (Sorry about the Joe Navy thing, just not wanting to throw out real names on the forum.) Anyway, it actually took me a couple of seconds to process because of my surprise. LOL
This is definitely not restricted to Chiefs and Officers, though. I know if I'm in a room of nothing but fellow 2nd Classes, we will call each other by our first names. There's just not a problem with it when there are no rate barriers being crossed.
This is definitely not restricted to Chiefs and Officers, though. I know if I'm in a room of nothing but fellow 2nd Classes, we will call each other by our first names. There's just not a problem with it when there are no rate barriers being crossed.
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I can understand your frustration with this because Navy aviation community has a big problem with officers and enlisted calling each other by their first names and it's hard to stop because the pilots feal this kinship with the people fixing their planes but you just have to remind they that regulations state they shouldn't be that familiar each other
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If they are the same rank it doesn't bother me. A junior enlisted should never refer to a senior enlisted by their first name. Under no circumstance should an NCO or enlisted Soldier EVER refer to an officer by their first name. I had this problem with a senior NCO once and a bunch of CPT's. I pulled them all aside and jumped on their collective faces for about 10 minutes. We aren't the Navy with painted areas of ships controling where you can and can't go, but there are boundaries for a reason.
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COL (Join to see)
And I usually refer to the majority of my subordinate officers a "Mr." or "Ms." (insert last name). I know that is the proper way to refer to a Warrant Officer, but I find it more appealing than using a rank or just a last name.
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I'm not sure why it really matters. As long as they aren't calling higher ups by their first names. In my unit sometimes we refer to higher ups by first name. Or some of the more well known Chiefs.
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Its happening in my section right now, I work in an S shop and have officers calling an NCO by her first name. There are 4 NCOs but only one is called by the first name. I spoke up and said its unprofessional and now the officers are actually butt hurt but i dont care. I wont let the professionalism go by the way side because they don't know any better
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My take: I think it shows that the senior member actually cares enough about you to know your first name instead of just being "insert rank and read your nametape"....
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As a crew chief in the 90’s, Army flight crews always addressed each other by name, or sir. Fly together, die together.
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