Posted on Jul 21, 2018
How much of a problem will the new Army Combat Fitness Test be for the part-time force?
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The full time component Soldiers will have daily opportunities to practice the events that will be included in the test. It is already a challenge to get RC Soldiers to pass the current test. I believe the national average is under 80% (I have been in units where the BN average was as low as 74%). An now we need to try and find a way to train on deadlift and medicine ball tosses? "Well get a gym membership", is a likely response. And for some that is a legitimate option, but for many that COA is constrained by budget concerns as well as the reality of time constraints that comes with juggling two careers. If you are not in the Reserves (and I assume NG) then you really can't appreciate how much time is spent between your40-50 hour job, Military obligations outside of drill weekends, and for some, throw in school.
It used to be fairly easy, if you had the motivation, to get up 45 minutes early and go for a short run or crank out a few sets of push ups or sit ups, or do some core exercises. Now what...GO to the back yard with your medicine ball that you somehow acquired and toss it about? I don't know that many who have a full set of weights in their home. I have a small set of bar bells and a kettle ball that I use, but not for deadlifts.
It will be interesting to see where passing score averages go when this becomes fully implemented.
It used to be fairly easy, if you had the motivation, to get up 45 minutes early and go for a short run or crank out a few sets of push ups or sit ups, or do some core exercises. Now what...GO to the back yard with your medicine ball that you somehow acquired and toss it about? I don't know that many who have a full set of weights in their home. I have a small set of bar bells and a kettle ball that I use, but not for deadlifts.
It will be interesting to see where passing score averages go when this becomes fully implemented.
APFT
ACFT
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 28
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I agree 100% with what you are saying. As soon as this came out, I identified several issues including how reserve component Soldiers are supposed to train for this. It is easy to say train on your own but that does cost Soldiers either by getting that equipment to train or join a gym. While I can afford that, I know there are plenty of RC Soldiers who would have a financial burden placed on them. Active duty Soldiers have access to the equipment and free membership at Post fitness centers. My second concern is the potential injury risk from the deadlift. If an active duty Soldier gets injured, they again have full access to healthcare without paying out of pocket. A RC Soldier will have to rely on a line of duty investigation or pay through their own healthcare. Finally, I am concerned about the long-term affect this will have on retention in the reserve components, especially the Army Reserve which already has a major issue with retention. I have a feeling that many will just say. "screw it all," and get out. IMHO, this is an example of big Army leadership either apathetic or ignorant of the challenges this will pose to RC Soldiers.
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There is no such thing as a part time force. When we enlist we accept the standards associated with service. Fitness is core with a many walks of life. You can meet the standards if you train to be fit. Thank you for your service.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) I personally think the current APFT is ok. I'm not saying it couldn't be tweaked some though. But if we paid more attention to getting soldiers to lose excess weight I think it would help more. I also think that having a test that "simulates combat" is basically just something that sounds good. One just needs to look at the guys who fought WWII to see that they had what it takes to succeed in combat without a special fitness plan.
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SFC (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) -
"The Army first introduced a formal fitness test to the troops in 1942. Millions of men were being called up to fight in World War II, and not all of them were prepared for the rigors of combat. To get the men in fighting shape, the Army implemented a systematic physical development program as part of the Combat Basic Training course. And the Army Ground Forces Test was designed to assess whether the program was having its desired effect. The test included squat jumps, sit-ups, pull-ups, push-ups, and a 300 yard run. The emphasis was on functional fitness and giving American GI’s the strength, mobility, and endurance they would need to tackle real tasks on the battlefield."
The Physical Training School closed in 1953. Focus on combat readiness PT test faded away and eventually turned into what we know now.
And: "When Dr. Edward Thomas, an instructor at the Army Physical Fitness School, re-discovered the WWII fitness test and administered it to soldiers in the 1990s, he was surprised at the result: soberingly low scores. While the numbers of required repetitions for things like push-ups are higher in the modern test than the WWII version, the standard for the precision with which the repetitions must be completed has been relaxed. Consequently, when Thomas tested the modern soldiers, they could only do a fraction of the repetitions required of WWII GIs."
I remember reading about they had a bunch of infantry guys or something try the WWII PT test - and most people failed it. They had five event test...and probably did it in utility uniform too. It did originally start out as a combat focused PT test.
"The Army first introduced a formal fitness test to the troops in 1942. Millions of men were being called up to fight in World War II, and not all of them were prepared for the rigors of combat. To get the men in fighting shape, the Army implemented a systematic physical development program as part of the Combat Basic Training course. And the Army Ground Forces Test was designed to assess whether the program was having its desired effect. The test included squat jumps, sit-ups, pull-ups, push-ups, and a 300 yard run. The emphasis was on functional fitness and giving American GI’s the strength, mobility, and endurance they would need to tackle real tasks on the battlefield."
The Physical Training School closed in 1953. Focus on combat readiness PT test faded away and eventually turned into what we know now.
And: "When Dr. Edward Thomas, an instructor at the Army Physical Fitness School, re-discovered the WWII fitness test and administered it to soldiers in the 1990s, he was surprised at the result: soberingly low scores. While the numbers of required repetitions for things like push-ups are higher in the modern test than the WWII version, the standard for the precision with which the repetitions must be completed has been relaxed. Consequently, when Thomas tested the modern soldiers, they could only do a fraction of the repetitions required of WWII GIs."
I remember reading about they had a bunch of infantry guys or something try the WWII PT test - and most people failed it. They had five event test...and probably did it in utility uniform too. It did originally start out as a combat focused PT test.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - I'm not against a physical fitness program at all. That will always be needed. And I'm not against making it harder. But what I saw when I was deployed and what the guys in a lot other wars went through is that once in country, regular PT is not possible. Yet we still managed to do what we needed to do. The guys in WWII did so for a long time. So again, I'm all for a PT test and I'm all for making it harder. I just don't think we'll ever have a test that will equate to "success in combat" since once we're in a peer-to-peer conflict, PT will probably go away. Just my 2 cents.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
I think we are of the same mind. The fit requirements should equate to total body and mind. If they allow independent units to train as they fight for fit and not just their MOS duties we would fair much better. In 2011 I took 50 E8-E9’s to Slovenia and we participated in their mountaineering challenge. It included a 65 pound ruck and full gear. It traversed mountainous terrain for 50 miles with multiple obstacles and tactical challenges. Climbing, rappelling, tactical zip line (improvised) over a 150 foot deep gorge, to mention a few. Each NCO was advised in plenty of time what the requirements were accept the depth and breadth of the mountainous terrain. They ranged the full spectrum of specialties, SF, Infantry, Artillery, Armor and so on including all support. We had one injury A 55 year old Ranger, who still finished. I say all this to point out that our Army’s NCO’s have the Ware with all to plan for and develop thier bodies and that of their Soldirs to meet the rigors of combat. Standing atop a mountain they gleaned just that point. The entire point of my challenge to us was to get to that frame of thought. I know at least for us his had an impact into what was then the future of the organizations. Sorry I droned on. It can be done, it just takes Leadership with foresight.
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You are always a soldier regardless of AD, USAR or ARNG, but USAR and NG soldiers are essentially part time. The skills, discipline, standard and professionalism should be on all the time though.
I am a former Reserve TPU soldier with 2 years AD under MEDDAC and TRADOC. I am now AGR in the Reserves. I see two major flaws with the new APFT.
1. You cannot practice the new test anywhere, anytime. Sure, you can get a medicine ball for cheap or use sandbags to toss but a deadlift set up... Not cheap even on the cheap.
Used plates in my area, when I can find them are $0.40-0.75 a pound. I have looked at super shitty used bars for $50 but I've seen slightly less shitty new bars on Amazon for around the same price. If you wand to build a platform itll run about $250 if you use your military discount at Home Depot. Or you can use 4 horse stall mats for about $100. Still, if a soldier bought all this, they are still limited with using it at home only. A majority of soldiers travel amd hour or more to drill so even if the unit left enough equipment out for soldiers to use, it wouldnt be used much. Some units dont even have space for a small gym. Out of 560 soldiers in my battalion, about 150 to 200 of those can barely afford the gas to come to drill.
2. THE DEADLIFT...
Let me preface that I have a background in bodybilding and have been dabbling in powerlifting for the last year. I also have a medical background with a good chunk of my education spent on gross anatomy and body mechanics.
The deadlift is a highly technical lift that a majority of people perform incorrectly. Sure any schmo should be able to grip and rip their bodyweight with a relatively low risk of injury but we all know these couch potatos or desk jockeys are gonna pound a couple scoops of pre workout monsters and try for 300 or heaven forbid the max when they have no busines attempting that weight. This is asking for hernias and herniated disks and someay have vaso vagal responses and pass TF out and hurt their dome.
Each lifter also has a unique deadlift set up due to their body habitus, height, grip preferences and stance preference. Im going to assume the Army will push out a standardized set up which can cause injury. Max or min foot width, overhand, hook or mixed grip and knee and hip angle standards. Sumo lifters are gonna love it... Not. There is no cookie cutter set up amd the the fatty who can't even do 20lb dumbell curls has no business judging technique and neither does the endurance runner who's never met the free weights. The deadlift is just a recipe for disaster.
The same joes who lack motivation and disciple to prep for the current APFT or stay relatively healthy and active, are the same ones who will fail this test or possibly the old crusties who shouldve retired arter WWI.
I loathe cardio so I would like to see the run dropped to 1 mile or removed... my momma always said I was a dreamer.
I am a former Reserve TPU soldier with 2 years AD under MEDDAC and TRADOC. I am now AGR in the Reserves. I see two major flaws with the new APFT.
1. You cannot practice the new test anywhere, anytime. Sure, you can get a medicine ball for cheap or use sandbags to toss but a deadlift set up... Not cheap even on the cheap.
Used plates in my area, when I can find them are $0.40-0.75 a pound. I have looked at super shitty used bars for $50 but I've seen slightly less shitty new bars on Amazon for around the same price. If you wand to build a platform itll run about $250 if you use your military discount at Home Depot. Or you can use 4 horse stall mats for about $100. Still, if a soldier bought all this, they are still limited with using it at home only. A majority of soldiers travel amd hour or more to drill so even if the unit left enough equipment out for soldiers to use, it wouldnt be used much. Some units dont even have space for a small gym. Out of 560 soldiers in my battalion, about 150 to 200 of those can barely afford the gas to come to drill.
2. THE DEADLIFT...
Let me preface that I have a background in bodybilding and have been dabbling in powerlifting for the last year. I also have a medical background with a good chunk of my education spent on gross anatomy and body mechanics.
The deadlift is a highly technical lift that a majority of people perform incorrectly. Sure any schmo should be able to grip and rip their bodyweight with a relatively low risk of injury but we all know these couch potatos or desk jockeys are gonna pound a couple scoops of pre workout monsters and try for 300 or heaven forbid the max when they have no busines attempting that weight. This is asking for hernias and herniated disks and someay have vaso vagal responses and pass TF out and hurt their dome.
Each lifter also has a unique deadlift set up due to their body habitus, height, grip preferences and stance preference. Im going to assume the Army will push out a standardized set up which can cause injury. Max or min foot width, overhand, hook or mixed grip and knee and hip angle standards. Sumo lifters are gonna love it... Not. There is no cookie cutter set up amd the the fatty who can't even do 20lb dumbell curls has no business judging technique and neither does the endurance runner who's never met the free weights. The deadlift is just a recipe for disaster.
The same joes who lack motivation and disciple to prep for the current APFT or stay relatively healthy and active, are the same ones who will fail this test or possibly the old crusties who shouldve retired arter WWI.
I loathe cardio so I would like to see the run dropped to 1 mile or removed... my momma always said I was a dreamer.
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CSM Charles Hayden
Thank you for an intelligent response re: RC Soldiers. SGT (Join to see) The Army wants the bodies available in reserve, but cannot treat them fairly!
Cheap fixes to readiness always cost, someone!
Cheap fixes to readiness always cost, someone!
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SGT Josh Samuelson
I am dumbfounded that there are excuses. There are no excuses, health and wellness should be first and foremost in your life and especially if you volunteer to be a soldier. Too expensive for this, no equipment for that. Educate your soldiers, I have been in fitness for 15 years as an educated personal trainer, not to include overlapping time in the Army. You don’t need a bar or plates to work the same muscles as a deadlift and to use that as an excuse when you claim to have studied health is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Soldiers can use a chair, by itself to work the exact same muscle groups, your soldiers don’t have to be jackasses and put 300 lbs on the bar and that is simply common sense. Something that should be instilled in your soldiers. If a soldier part time or full time fails a fitness test that lyes on the leadership that failed him or her and they should be held accountable.
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