Posted on Feb 20, 2018
How much time should I give my unit to get the BDE CDR's signature on a memo/4187?
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So, I'm trying to apply for a federally-run civilian school that grants degrees to uniformed servicemembers. The only condition that the school puts forth as a military requirement is that my first O-6 must grant permission/nomination in order to be admitted; everything else is an academic requirement which I already exceed.
I submitted a 4187 and unsigned memo for my BDE CDR back in mid-December, with a hard suspense date of no later than 1 May (school's cutoff, obviously the faster it comes back the better). I've had no replies from my CoC aside from "we'll submit it" and "it's at S1" (insert 42A jokes here).
Consider the following about this school:
-Tuition is waived; I won't be dipping into TA or my GI Bill for this to happen.
-This is a weekend school for Reservists, once a month. I've already put in writing that I still intend to report for monthly drill, and will RST any unavoidable conflicts well in advance.
-I will be living close to this school anyway; won't need TDY money or a PCS, so the unit doesn't pay a dime on that front either. I've also put into writing that if they demand accountability, I'll sign in for points instead of pay.
Given the above, what is a reasonable turnaround time for a memo to get signed, especially if it doesn't involve money? And at what point should I get IG involved, if at all?
Thanks in advance.
I submitted a 4187 and unsigned memo for my BDE CDR back in mid-December, with a hard suspense date of no later than 1 May (school's cutoff, obviously the faster it comes back the better). I've had no replies from my CoC aside from "we'll submit it" and "it's at S1" (insert 42A jokes here).
Consider the following about this school:
-Tuition is waived; I won't be dipping into TA or my GI Bill for this to happen.
-This is a weekend school for Reservists, once a month. I've already put in writing that I still intend to report for monthly drill, and will RST any unavoidable conflicts well in advance.
-I will be living close to this school anyway; won't need TDY money or a PCS, so the unit doesn't pay a dime on that front either. I've also put into writing that if they demand accountability, I'll sign in for points instead of pay.
Given the above, what is a reasonable turnaround time for a memo to get signed, especially if it doesn't involve money? And at what point should I get IG involved, if at all?
Thanks in advance.
Posted in these groups: 
Human Resources (HR)
Battalion Commander
Human Resources (HR) Battalion Commander
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 4
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Couple of ways to skin this cat. First, I must presume your 1SG, Company CDR, CSM, & BN CDR endorsed the 4187. I would be inclined to run an update request through the NCO CoC to inquire.
I can bet your BDE CDR is looking real hard at manning and tastings. What is the length of this school? Will this be TDY or how will you be carried? PT? Weapons qual? Etc.?
I can bet your BDE CDR is looking real hard at manning and tastings. What is the length of this school? Will this be TDY or how will you be carried? PT? Weapons qual? Etc.?
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SGT Justin Chiang
Hey Chief,
Thanks for giving this a look. To clarify/answer a few of your points:
-1SG (with commander's signature authority, since he's on the full-time staff) and my NCOIC (E8) have both endorsed this packet. NCOIC tells me he's been asking about the 4187 for a few weeks now, and he gets the same answers that I do.
The school's program which I'm applying to is a 2-year master's program, one weekend out of every month. Most Reservists use it to satisfy their drilling requirements; I'm electing not to, since my brigade has a real-world mission. I will be working in the vicinity of the school for my civilian job in any case, so its not going to be a TDY (don't even think its authorized, but I haven't read the full JTR). As for weapons qual and PT, I'll do them with the unit whenever we're running ranges/APFT's since I still intend to report for drill every month.
Thanks for giving this a look. To clarify/answer a few of your points:
-1SG (with commander's signature authority, since he's on the full-time staff) and my NCOIC (E8) have both endorsed this packet. NCOIC tells me he's been asking about the 4187 for a few weeks now, and he gets the same answers that I do.
The school's program which I'm applying to is a 2-year master's program, one weekend out of every month. Most Reservists use it to satisfy their drilling requirements; I'm electing not to, since my brigade has a real-world mission. I will be working in the vicinity of the school for my civilian job in any case, so its not going to be a TDY (don't even think its authorized, but I haven't read the full JTR). As for weapons qual and PT, I'll do them with the unit whenever we're running ranges/APFT's since I still intend to report for drill every month.
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CW3 Jeff Held
SGT Justin Chiang - if it’s getting down to crunch time then escalate your efforts to find out if he signed it. Does not sound detrimental to the unit or mission. However, if your unit gets the green light you’ll most likely need to back out of the school until missions end.
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SGT Justin Chiang
Chief,
Just thought I'd post an update since its coming down to "crunch-time". Brigade S-1 basically decided to ignore (or just plain didn't bother reading) a bunch of e-mail traffic from the university outlining the appointment process for part-time students, and is going off of a MILPER for Active Duty candidates who are trying to go to the school as a nominative assignment/PCS.... which involves a deadline that passed months ago and a selection process that doesn't apply, per the university. I sent them the e-mail traffic again, this time with the relevant bits highlighted, and the clerk says he'll take care of it. I don't know how much confidence I have in that statement. If this keeps going on much longer, would it be outrageous to walk to the Command Suite with the memo in hand, and an explanation of everything that has led me up to his door?
I fully understand how the unit's mission and deployments will take priority, and I'm pretty sure I can make the school understand as well. It would not be unprecedented for a reservist to be mobilized while working towards a degree part time.
Just thought I'd post an update since its coming down to "crunch-time". Brigade S-1 basically decided to ignore (or just plain didn't bother reading) a bunch of e-mail traffic from the university outlining the appointment process for part-time students, and is going off of a MILPER for Active Duty candidates who are trying to go to the school as a nominative assignment/PCS.... which involves a deadline that passed months ago and a selection process that doesn't apply, per the university. I sent them the e-mail traffic again, this time with the relevant bits highlighted, and the clerk says he'll take care of it. I don't know how much confidence I have in that statement. If this keeps going on much longer, would it be outrageous to walk to the Command Suite with the memo in hand, and an explanation of everything that has led me up to his door?
I fully understand how the unit's mission and deployments will take priority, and I'm pretty sure I can make the school understand as well. It would not be unprecedented for a reservist to be mobilized while working towards a degree part time.
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SGT Justin Chiang " And at what point should I get IG involved, if at all?"
Not applicable for the issue as you have described it so far, for this issue, IG might be appropriate if the Cofc was not following a policy, regulation or law....Pretty sure none of that applies here.
Your Cofc has no obligation to action your REQUEST.. It would be appropriate for them to deny it and say why, or approve it in a timely manner .. but unless you have a DOD, Service, or other legal guidance that requires your cofc to act on your REQUEST, they could, if they were so inclined toss it in the circular file and move on to something they feel is more important. Not my idea of right...but its done.
So what now???, well you have some good info already and sounds like you know what right is.. Show those that are delaying how they can say YES to your request..Stay active in the process and if the S1 is denying to act for cause and the cause is unjust, that is something most CofC would want to know...so start low and work up
Not applicable for the issue as you have described it so far, for this issue, IG might be appropriate if the Cofc was not following a policy, regulation or law....Pretty sure none of that applies here.
Your Cofc has no obligation to action your REQUEST.. It would be appropriate for them to deny it and say why, or approve it in a timely manner .. but unless you have a DOD, Service, or other legal guidance that requires your cofc to act on your REQUEST, they could, if they were so inclined toss it in the circular file and move on to something they feel is more important. Not my idea of right...but its done.
So what now???, well you have some good info already and sounds like you know what right is.. Show those that are delaying how they can say YES to your request..Stay active in the process and if the S1 is denying to act for cause and the cause is unjust, that is something most CofC would want to know...so start low and work up
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Usually, I would say that a period of 60 to 90 days under the command would suffice. Let them get a warm and fuzzy about your performance (probably not the Col. but at least your TCB Commander and 1SG would be able to vouch for you at that point). If this is a time-sensitive thing, just go for it. Worst that can happen is you get shot down and you resubmit it after 60 to 90 days. Rinse and repeat.
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