Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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I know I have already responded, but I don't know what I typed. So if I was in uniform excluding when I am on duty as an MP, my head gear comes off. That is the rule or reg in army regulation. I might not like but I must enforce it. If I am wearing civilian clothes I will leave my head gear on unless there is a posted rule or I am in an area like a memorial or place of worship. Yesterday I wore my head in the commissary while wearing civilian attire and not one person said anything to me.
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I have loved to witness this situation... At first it made me laugh as I read the event... My point of view in general for any military branch personal not to say for a member of the Marines... The attitude of the Superior was correct... I have a close idea of what I done too... Soldiers live by the code of respect of their uniforms... I have loved to wore one with all honor... Well I did when I was an officer for the security of the O'Hare airport here in Chicago... And even then there was not a day I wore it clean pressed and with respect...
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I hope this does not step on any toes, but if toes just happen to be where I am putting my foot at that particular moment then it can't be helped, LOL.
I get the feeling that this post was more of a "if it had happened this way, do you think it was handled correctly?" and not a "is this a credible story?" type post.
That being said, every NCO and officer of the armed forces has faced or will face a troop who is outside of the regs and does not show respect. It happens.
Admittedly, far less likely in the Marines, but we do have disgruntled troops who may be pushing buttons for craps and giggles.
The decision for the leaders is how to deal with these scenarios.
Stories like this provide opportunities to evaluate what you would do under similar circumstances.
If you were the junior enlisted, would you have even had the cover on? If so (because we are not all perfect), what should your response be?
If you were the junior officer and you saw this, what should your correct on the spot correction be? If the young private started a confrontation, what should you do to keep it from being "righteous indignation" because, while you are correct, you are letting a private cause you to lose your military bearings so badly that a CSM has to stop the public display of disrespect. Could you now, at this time, use this story to prepare on how to handle a similar situation should it arise, considering both presented and assumed information?
No assumptions or reflections on the CSM, he's never wrong.
We can't prepare for everything, but stories like this, that are intended to cause us to think, can at least help us to consider possible encounters which we may have never considered, and to prepare a calculated response to them.
I get the feeling that this post was more of a "if it had happened this way, do you think it was handled correctly?" and not a "is this a credible story?" type post.
That being said, every NCO and officer of the armed forces has faced or will face a troop who is outside of the regs and does not show respect. It happens.
Admittedly, far less likely in the Marines, but we do have disgruntled troops who may be pushing buttons for craps and giggles.
The decision for the leaders is how to deal with these scenarios.
Stories like this provide opportunities to evaluate what you would do under similar circumstances.
If you were the junior enlisted, would you have even had the cover on? If so (because we are not all perfect), what should your response be?
If you were the junior officer and you saw this, what should your correct on the spot correction be? If the young private started a confrontation, what should you do to keep it from being "righteous indignation" because, while you are correct, you are letting a private cause you to lose your military bearings so badly that a CSM has to stop the public display of disrespect. Could you now, at this time, use this story to prepare on how to handle a similar situation should it arise, considering both presented and assumed information?
No assumptions or reflections on the CSM, he's never wrong.
We can't prepare for everything, but stories like this, that are intended to cause us to think, can at least help us to consider possible encounters which we may have never considered, and to prepare a calculated response to them.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SGT Michael Thorin I received a lot of comments like that. Could this really have happened or this was made up! Michael you know me and I don't tell stories for the sake of telling stories. It did happen exactly the way my wife described it. I actually had to go to the MCX and check out her story myself with the other ladies in the department and the manager of the area they work in and it happened just like I described it above. I've even talked to a few Marines since then and they weren't surprised with some of the new recruits coming into Pendleton. It it is what it was!
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SGT Michael Thorin
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Yes sir, I got that impression.
I look at everything that is presented to me as an opportunity to learn, and not as an opportunity to critique or doubt.
I never doubted that you used anything but facts, it just felt like everyone was getting off track and started doubting the story instead of focusing on the fact that it is very much a teachable moment.
In the military, those "teachable moments" can prepare us for actual future problems.
Using "if" in my preemptive statement was probably a poor choice of a word. LOL
I look at everything that is presented to me as an opportunity to learn, and not as an opportunity to critique or doubt.
I never doubted that you used anything but facts, it just felt like everyone was getting off track and started doubting the story instead of focusing on the fact that it is very much a teachable moment.
In the military, those "teachable moments" can prepare us for actual future problems.
Using "if" in my preemptive statement was probably a poor choice of a word. LOL
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mikel, great story, im a contractor on camp Pendleton actually, but am an army vet. I just wanted to make a correction and say that SMA means sergeant major of the army. I think you were looking for SGM which is a regular E9 I got what you were saying tho. im probably the hundredth person to make this correction also, just had to put my two cents in.
on the other side. if a SGM came down near me screaming id just start doing push ups too. old habits die hard
on the other side. if a SGM came down near me screaming id just start doing push ups too. old habits die hard
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If wisdom is "knowing when to make an exception", and this officer happened to be a wise man, then he elected *not* to make an exception in this case, which is a fine thing for a wise person to do. His execution of "justice" this time may have better expressed itself by finding a way to achieve the result with allowance for the dignity and feelings of everyone involved (to include factoring in by-standers). With the luxury that time affords this reader/writer, I think that the officer could have simply remarked upon how squared away the enlisted man's cover appeared. For his mother, this would be a compliment to the pride she feels, and for the enlisted man it could be a clever hint to remove his cover, look at it, and say with sincerity "Thank you, sir".
Or, so it seems to me.
Or, so it seems to me.
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Sgt Ronnie Mack
As I have stated in my previous post. Young Marine feeling hitself as we all did as young G.I.'s we were in top of the world and could nothing hurt us much less tell us what to do. Yet, we all have had that or those moments where we did something stupid and a senior NCO I and or SNCOIC chewed out ass and bend and thurat is to death. But never did paper work (page 11 or NJP). We later looked back and realized that we could have ruined our career wih the stupid act we did, and thanked GOD that the NCO or SNCOIC punched us he way they did (verbally)!
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Whether the Officer was in uniform or not. He should have identified himself to the young Devil Dog, ask him if he is alone and what unit he is attached to, then ask for his ID Card to confirm he wasn't a POS (Piece Of Shit -Wanna-Be); inform him that wearing your cover indoors is against regulations; unless you are under arms, or current on duty (with duty belt and appropriate device). Allow the young Devil Dog, to make amends and address the officer and introduce whomever he is with. If, he refused, then request he accompany you outside and inform him you are calling the MP's. But, this is Gunnery Sergeant, USMC (Ret.) two cents. You know I would have made an off the wall comment about "In the Old Corps, We didn't wear our covers indoors, what year did you graduate Marine?"
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MSgt Charles Hull
Woulda, shoulda, coulda.......Its a different world than it was 50 years ago......this subject never would have come up especially to a level where an officer got involved.....back then even the PX workerbees would have solved the problem before he got in the door .....the brig , not corrections was always available to assist with 'attitude adjustments'........
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He was treated the way he shod have been....and made the wrong decision first wearing the cover we all know that from day one and second to react to the junior because of his dumb ass....enough said
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Handled perfectly! The young marine should have apologized immediately and removed his cover.It is taught immediately in basic Training to uncover upon entering a building.This young marine is obviously not motivated and needs a good swift kick in the ass! Command Sergeant Major was on point!
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This is a product of how much our military has degraded since i retired. Everything is soft now and some of the men and women joining the military today bring that street mentality and attitude with them. The leadership structure in the NCO Core is broke...discipline has been degraded guided by social politics and social media steming from society acceptance parameters dumping on the military way of life. The young marine should have listened point blank. A correction is a correction wether from a peer or a leader. The only tact that is suppose to be given is from lower to higher ranking person
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SFC Brian Vasquez I agree with your assessment on a very small level - I've seen what you are talking about prior to retirement, but I believe that those are isolated events and issues. All services with have their "have-nots" that need to be processed out - it's human nature, but for the most part when you look across the military services there is still a lot of esprit de corps among all the ranks. Discipline is still there and we have NCO (the back bone of our services) that really do a great job and care. I still believe that across all services! Isolated issues and events will happen - the key is the appropriate corrective action that service member can carry with them to the next level or rank! Just my opinion Brian
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