Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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The Sgt. Major did the right thing. The young officer and the Marine both need to be disciplined and the Mother needs to cut the umbilical cord.
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If I were that marines senior. I would push to have him NJP'd for disrespect to a officer. He knows damn well he shouldn't have busted out on that officer regardless of his position. Rather he be a 2ndLT or a Full Bird Co. He needs to learn how to handle his anger. Fuck that you're a fucking marine.
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The "Marine"...and I use that title loosely, blew it twice. The young Officer also blew it by getting into a pissing match with the lad. In "The Old Corps" the SgtMaj would have done more than grab that youngster by the stacking swivel. In today's Corps he will undoubtedly be forced to retire, if not busted over this.
I was active duty USN and USMC for almost 20 years. After that, I was a civilian supervisor in the Lejeune 911 center for 14 more years. Believe it or not, there were several occasions where we received calls from Gunnery Sergeants, and even Sergeants Majors, requesting law enforcement to respond because some Marine or Sailor was being disrespectful or in violation of something along the lines of this hat incident here. All I could do was shake my head, and thank God I got out when I did. Semper Fi
I was active duty USN and USMC for almost 20 years. After that, I was a civilian supervisor in the Lejeune 911 center for 14 more years. Believe it or not, there were several occasions where we received calls from Gunnery Sergeants, and even Sergeants Majors, requesting law enforcement to respond because some Marine or Sailor was being disrespectful or in violation of something along the lines of this hat incident here. All I could do was shake my head, and thank God I got out when I did. Semper Fi
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It doesn't matter of the rank,what matters is the Marine with his cover on deserves what he got. He was wrong and should know the proper way to wear that uniform. As a Navy Doc that served many years with the Marines,this is one thing I really loved about them,and that's the pride they have for that uniform and the Corps! You police your own before they instill bad habits onto others.
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Wow. Dirt all around.
The young Marine commits a minor infraction. The JO embarrasses him in public. Young grunt reacts horribly. The Sgt Maj loses it (and commits assault?)
Their respective commanders need to privately counsel each of the three and help them understand how they could have done this better. IF, IF, there are no other factors, no history of problem behavior, then I would 1) ask the Sgt Maj privately what contributed to his physical overreaction, 2) tell the JO that, upon receiving the young Marine's backtalk, he should have taken it outside, excused the mom--very politely--for a moment, and identified the young Marine's ID card for further "discussion" later. 3) The young Marine, if he's got a clean record, needs to pee in the bottle, apologize to the JO, and then perform a few extra shifts at the main gate, saluting cars.
I had a somewhat similar event at a squadron picnic. A drunk GI loudly told his friends that he wished all the "officers and assholes" would go away. He meant for me to hear it and be offended in public. Considering the crowd and the alcohol involved, I walked away. Next day, I chewed his ass in my office, found an old OSI investigator who agreed to bounce the guy around for a bit in an interrogation room, then sent him to pee in the bottle. Pop! Cocaine. Discharge.
The young Marine commits a minor infraction. The JO embarrasses him in public. Young grunt reacts horribly. The Sgt Maj loses it (and commits assault?)
Their respective commanders need to privately counsel each of the three and help them understand how they could have done this better. IF, IF, there are no other factors, no history of problem behavior, then I would 1) ask the Sgt Maj privately what contributed to his physical overreaction, 2) tell the JO that, upon receiving the young Marine's backtalk, he should have taken it outside, excused the mom--very politely--for a moment, and identified the young Marine's ID card for further "discussion" later. 3) The young Marine, if he's got a clean record, needs to pee in the bottle, apologize to the JO, and then perform a few extra shifts at the main gate, saluting cars.
I had a somewhat similar event at a squadron picnic. A drunk GI loudly told his friends that he wished all the "officers and assholes" would go away. He meant for me to hear it and be offended in public. Considering the crowd and the alcohol involved, I walked away. Next day, I chewed his ass in my office, found an old OSI investigator who agreed to bounce the guy around for a bit in an interrogation room, then sent him to pee in the bottle. Pop! Cocaine. Discharge.
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Corrections should be brought to the attention of any military member, but it should be done with tact. I remember a SgtMaj who simply said, "Uncover!" and went on his way. I once came out of the HQ Building for the 2nd Marine Air Wing and saluted several officers. A WO friend of mine stopped and talked to me for a minute. I saluted him and went on to my car where my wife and sons were waiting. My oldest was about 6 at the time and he said, "Why is you hat on backwards?" I was wearing a garrison cover and did not notice I had placed the EGA on the back of my head and not the front.
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MSgt Loren Pierce
I agree with you 100%. There is a time for punishment and a verbal lashing and a time for a simple correction. The Sgt.Maj. was completely out of line and this could have been dealt with a more appropriate time and been a lot less embarrassing on the family member involved. The Sgt.Maj may have been wearing his feathers proud that day and believed he was in the right but those parents are civilians and a US Congressman or Senator would love nothing more than to dress a base CC for the actions of one of his people that caused embarrassment or humiliation to a civilian family member of a young recruit.
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GySgt William Hardy
There are always exceptions to the rule. Ever salute an officer but his hands were full and he just nodded? According to the story, the Marine in question, if the story is true, was disrespectful to the officer and was escorted out by the SgtMaj. In lieu of the knowing the entire story and assuming the facts were stated, the young Marine was most definitely in the wrong. I am not excusing his behavior. Often, the officer or SNCO could have handled it differently to minimize the scene and reduce the tension in a public place. I have heard the "tone" from many junior officers that were "hostile" and provoked an immediate negative response. On the other hand, I have heard officers and NCOs say things like, "Your head cold?" or "Hands cold?", where upon the enlisted man would remove the cover or take his hands out of his pockets. You can make corrections without being an Ahole about it. Hindsight is 20/20, but if we exercise some thought and practice the corrections mentally before we speak, hostilities can be held to a minimum. I have heard officers and NCOs who have said, "Let's have a word in private." The officer should have done something along those lines. He did not, and the SgtMaj stepped in. The SgtMaj could have used a different tone, but he did escort the offender out of the MCX. Sounds to me like the leadership was more at fault than the enlisted guy. First off, Officers and SNCOs should have known better. While a person may be guilty of a breech of the dress code/military policy, it was a minor offense and it was the junior officer that let it get out of hand.
Just because the junior officer and SgtMaj had right on their side, it does not mean they handled it correctly.
Just because the junior officer and SgtMaj had right on their side, it does not mean they handled it correctly.
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I'm sorry but after nearly 20 years in the Air Force it was an unwritten "law" that cover was not to be worn indoors. The officer attempted to handle the situation properly until provoked by a total lack of disrespect for his rank by the young marine. His loss of temper, while justified, was not very becoming given the locale. The Sgt. Major diffused the situation correctly and the grabbing of the collar was also warranted because I doubt seriously the young marine would have gone out of the MCX if asked nicely. Thank you for the opportunity to weigh in here with my opinion.
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If and when I have to make an on the spot correction when in civilian clothes, I will calmly approach the person, and with DoD ID (CAC) in hand, will identify myself and then proceed to make the correction. This prevents the "Who the F*%k are you?" conversation.
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The officer should have had more tact and told the marine who he was. The marine should have corrected himself and thanked the officer for having his back before someone decided to push paper on him. And the SgtMaj, well he was just doing his job.
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