Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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cover is worn in doors only when under arms or detailed to the pay Officer as security ... any wear of cover as prescribed is a disrespect, not only to the establishment, but also to the service represented ... now I will not condone the actions of the CSM ... but it is a life lesson for the private ...
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I've seen situations where you have some idiot do something so blatantly out of regulation in public one would think they didn't have the courage to do. A lot of times it came from chapter cases or people who were very short. Don't doubt it happened because it happened. Question is why the hell a junior officer or a Sergeant Major had to resolve this? I believe it. Junior leaders in the Army have been Neutered (or spayed). Senior leaders micromanage them so much now they are afraid to make corrections and seem to have accepted it. Meanwhile Command Sergeant Majors and 1SGs run around making corrections all day. Go to the Dustbowl at NTC now. Go anywhere where there are hundreds of Soldiers and you will see sleeves cuffed, unshaved, boots unbloused, headgear on, eyepro on indoors, you name it. When I would correct them, a CSM would correct them, young privates would give their life story about why they had a uniform infraction. When I came up, we said "Roger Sergeant, no excuse." Notice I didn't say SSG, SFC, 1SG, CSM. Yes SGTs used to make corrections. The ones that do today are typically considered outcasts. I pushed my team leaders to be the standard, but they were outcasts in the company and the Battalion. We have done it to ourselves. This is reason 10001 why I am glad I am retired now.
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This will also create another resentful member who will always remember the incident and will want out sooner than later. Career Councelor will have his work cut out for him.
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Even if it's not the same branch now as a reservist I have a guard base by my civilian part time job. I've usually had to say something but it's usually a sir you forgot you're cover they simple said thank for the reminder and go about no harm no foul. I've only had one problem when a ocs guy cause he had his fleece on with rank name and branch and I said Sir I don't know how it's is on the army, but I know in the Air Force when wearing a uniform peace in civilian clothes is to make sure there is no military rank or names or branches. He responded with your right you don't that's when I got defenseive caus all was doing is reminding him of simple rules to take off the ocs rank patch his name and branch tags from his fleece. When he just asked what was my rank in the Air Force I put my ID done and said you mean my current rank and what your unit are you with cause me and you supervisor will have a few words to exchange instead at which time I got the info and walked away.
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Young Marines is a youth organization that models itself after the Marine Corps, but is not part of the Marine Corps. The story doesn't explain whether or not the individual wearing a cover was a Young Marine (i.e. a member of that organization), or a young Marine (an Active Duty Marine who is youthful). As a former Officer of Marines, the officer mishandled this. As soon as the Young/young Marine back-talked, he should have found the nearest NCO to take care of the situation; if the individual was indeed a Young Marine, then that would be the unit's adult leader present. Also, if it was a Young Marine, then he violated the Young Marine Creed in that a) he did not obey his parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old, or b) remember having self-discipline will enable him to control his body and mind in case of an emergency.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Maj Tim Rogers My wife has been working there now going on two years and she definitely knows the Marine uniforms and the difference. Unfortunately, they were all three Marines in uniform when this occurred! Very unusal event, but the Mother definitely was the instigator for the yelling and most of the scene. The Marine should have just removed the cover and the whole thing would have been avoided. I've seen events like this both in the Army and in Joint Situations get blown of proportion before as well in the last 37 years! It does happen even though it shouldn't. My main concern was, how do junior leaders and NCOs handle these types of situations when they are faced with them. You are very correct in your summation above about the junior officer. Thanks
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This is really pretty simple. Marines don't wear covers indoors unless under arms. If you are doing do, you are in the wrong. If another Marine corrects you (regardless of rank) the appropriate response is to correct the poor behavior and move on. The Marines response will cost him dearly. You can rest assured the Sgt Maj got his ID card, unit, etc and either already has or shortly will be dropping a bomb.
There is no excuse for the response from the Marine in question. Could the Junior Officer have handled it better? I don't know but I do know that doesn't change the incorrect behavior of the Marine both in wearing the cover and the response when corrected. I predict a lot of pain for one Junior Marine at Camp Pendleton. Lt's of secured liberty, plenty of extra military instruction and all sorts of other goodies.
There is no excuse for the response from the Marine in question. Could the Junior Officer have handled it better? I don't know but I do know that doesn't change the incorrect behavior of the Marine both in wearing the cover and the response when corrected. I predict a lot of pain for one Junior Marine at Camp Pendleton. Lt's of secured liberty, plenty of extra military instruction and all sorts of other goodies.
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Right idea. Wrong way of handling it, from all three Marines. The younger marine should've never disrespected that officer, nor should he have had his cover on indoors in the first place. But when the officer gets into his face and starts yelling right there in the middle of a public place, it's takes away all the professionalism and appearance that a marine, AND an officer carries. The CSM I thought was going to be the savior, but the grabbing by the collar just looks horrendous on the military in general.
And the mother, well....she needs to realize her little boy isn't little anymore.
And the mother, well....she needs to realize her little boy isn't little anymore.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Without knowing more information, I'm going to have to call this one a "sea story..."
Without knowing more information, I'm going to have to call this one a "sea story..."
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
PO1 John Miller Not so much partner - it's the real thing and I just wanted to get your feedback on how it shoul dhave been handled! Thanks
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PO1 John Miller
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
In that case the boot Marine would probably be standing tall before the man and the JO should receive training himself on how to handle situations like that! :)
In that case the boot Marine would probably be standing tall before the man and the JO should receive training himself on how to handle situations like that! :)
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SGT Jason Mester
PO1 John Miller - Indeed! Two wrongs do not make a right no matter the rank involved.
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Retraining, everyone knows that one be under arms to wear headgear indoors. For instance: actually carrying a weapon or wearing a stripped pistol belt. The young Marine was wrong on 2 counts; disrespecting an Officer first of all, then not removing his cover when told. To correct the uniform violation.
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Wish I could've been there! That young Marine got away with a punishable offense, but I'm sure the CSM's motivation outside MRX was sufficient to ensure the young Marine would never make that mistake again.
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