Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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Interesting and I do believe it given the swing in the training of the services to attract today's youth but that's another story. I do know that the custom and courtesy of removing your cover indoors is still in effect. I also know that challenging a officer in public in a hostile manner is a sign of disrespect. I have served TDY's on Navy bases and we currently have a Marine unit on our post. I can see the action playing out as you describe. The officer was within his authority to make a spot correction. Understanding the Marine nature they are NCO driven and the bulk of the authority, internal discipline, and respect for fellow comrades are embedded deeply within the NCO Core. Saying that would the CSM/SGM be the final word in defusing the situation? Most definitely. I had a Marine tell me "we respect you but we fear the CSM/SGM and its a big difference!" I am quite sure he will be reprimanded in some form for his lack of respect but I don't imagine too hard.
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Was the junior officer in uniform or civilian clothes? I assume in civilian attire and the JO should have identified himself first, with his ID card, before telling the Marine to remove his cover.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
PO1 Rodney Bracey All parties were in uniform (minus the Mother)! There are a number of different approaches the JO could have made to handle the situation. That what I'm interested in hearing about from other RP Members. Your thoughts on how it could have been handled properly by all concerned? Thanks
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PO1 Rodney Bracey
Everyone knows that Marines routinely try to hang wallpaper with sledgehammers. LOL.
The JO should have kept the situation close to level zero as possible and just mention to the Marine to keep his cover off until he is outside of the building. Even if the enlisted Marine escalated things, getting into a shouting match in a public place is not the best course of action.
The JO should have kept the situation close to level zero as possible and just mention to the Marine to keep his cover off until he is outside of the building. Even if the enlisted Marine escalated things, getting into a shouting match in a public place is not the best course of action.
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It sounds like a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel or two will be speaking to their Marines. The Junior Marines... I'm going to assume PFC or a Junior Lance, for mouthing off to an Officer. Second the batallion commander of the LT for getting into a shouting match.
That PFC needs to have some NJP in his future for being a moron. That LT needs to have some education on how to do things in public when someone shows their ass. Getting into a screaming match isn't the way to handle it, whether officer or NCO. The comments about detaining him or getting MPs to do so are the right ones.
That PFC needs to have some NJP in his future for being a moron. That LT needs to have some education on how to do things in public when someone shows their ass. Getting into a screaming match isn't the way to handle it, whether officer or NCO. The comments about detaining him or getting MPs to do so are the right ones.
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When I was young boy, my father had this technique for scolding us in public. He did not get loud, he was a mechanic by trade, and all those years of pulling heads by hand gave him incredible finger strength. He would put a vise lock crimp with his fingers, on the back of your triceps, that got your immediate attention, then he would whisper in your ear, so that only the two of us knew what was said, "Wait till you get home." Nothing more ever needed to be said.
I won't question if it was or wasn't true, stranger stuff has happened. I think the Jr Officer could of handled it better IMHO. A simple hand signal to the Marine in with the hat, or whisper in the young mans ear should of of quelled the situation. Had that not worked, a pull tot he side out of Mom's ear range and identifying himself to the enlisted man should of ended it there. Had enlisted man decided to escalate the situation, the Officer would of done well to escort the young man out doors/out of the MCX and handled it from there.
I won't question if it was or wasn't true, stranger stuff has happened. I think the Jr Officer could of handled it better IMHO. A simple hand signal to the Marine in with the hat, or whisper in the young mans ear should of of quelled the situation. Had that not worked, a pull tot he side out of Mom's ear range and identifying himself to the enlisted man should of ended it there. Had enlisted man decided to escalate the situation, the Officer would of done well to escort the young man out doors/out of the MCX and handled it from there.
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UCMJ if he were mine (EM) and a little counseling for the JO. JO it's ok to be as hard as woodpecker lips but you gotta have discretion too- never walk past a wrong but make corrections in a professional manner. Show me your ID Card and tell me your unit CSM's/1SG/ etcetera name. Had a Navy Officer try that once- it happens, be professional. BTW momma needs to follow rules too or she can leave the MCX and the installation - privledge
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In my short nearly 6 years in the Navy I learned a few things on that topic...People you don't want to piss off...
1) Any Gunnery MOS that is E-6 or above
2) Any E-7 or above regardless of rating
3) Personnel Department people.
I would say that both the Junior Officer and the young Marine both got an education that day, and yeah the young Marine probably did get some real mandatory fun too as part of his education. As in the mandatory fun of explaining to his mom what he did wrong, along with his reduction in rank, and the point that he will not be going anywhere outside of his duties for a LONG time.
1) Any Gunnery MOS that is E-6 or above
2) Any E-7 or above regardless of rating
3) Personnel Department people.
I would say that both the Junior Officer and the young Marine both got an education that day, and yeah the young Marine probably did get some real mandatory fun too as part of his education. As in the mandatory fun of explaining to his mom what he did wrong, along with his reduction in rank, and the point that he will not be going anywhere outside of his duties for a LONG time.
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The young "Marine" (sounds like a 10%er) was wrong, disrespectful, and insubordinate. SgtMaj did the only correct thing possible in that situation. Two ways to handle it:
1. Go by the book and write him up, NJP, etc.
2. Turn him over to his Gunny (or other SNCO/NCO) and let them handle it 'in an appropriate manner' (Old Corps). Dig a few foxholes, stand a 12 hour post in 29 Palms during August, etc.
(Id also take into account the Marine's past record - if spotless or nearly so - use Option 2 so it doesn't screw his record. If he is a true shitbag, then Option 1, and get him out.)
1. Go by the book and write him up, NJP, etc.
2. Turn him over to his Gunny (or other SNCO/NCO) and let them handle it 'in an appropriate manner' (Old Corps). Dig a few foxholes, stand a 12 hour post in 29 Palms during August, etc.
(Id also take into account the Marine's past record - if spotless or nearly so - use Option 2 so it doesn't screw his record. If he is a true shitbag, then Option 1, and get him out.)
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