Posted on Apr 6, 2018
How should I handle a revolving issue with an E-6 regarding my haircut?
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So I have always cut my hair the same way which is combed over on the top and faded on the sides and is in regs. Well I had my NCOIC (SSG) tell me that it wasn't in regs. and that he didn't like the way it appeared. I cut it a little shorter on the top and when to my TL (SGT) and she agreed that there is nothing wrong with it. That SSG told me I had to have a meeting with him and the 1SG but the 1SG never came, it was just myself and the SSG again. He told me again how it wasn't within regs. and looks like I'm a rebel. Few days later, (last night) I saw that SSG and before I could even say hello her said, "Take your hat off, let me see your hair." I showed him and he said, "You better fix it by tomorrow or else you know what'll happen." (He wants my to get a basic training cut) Now today, my TL (SGT) just came into my office and said that I have to go see that SSG at 1500 and that he refused to tell her what it was about. I know it'll be about my hair again. My SGT told me to tell him that I understand that it's his opinion that he doesn't like it but I would like to get a second look by the 1SG before I shave my head. Can any Senior Leaders help me on this one? I'm not just some Joe trying to start problems. I'm squared away, show up to work on time, have no negative counselings, and to top it off...The 1SG saw my hair the same way when I first met him and he said, "Look at Pavlock, his hair is always on point!" Someone please give me some advice!
Posted in these groups: 
Army Regulations
Leadership
Army Regulations Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 104
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A basic training haircut? I understand your whole issue and question is based on "principle," but wow! You are aware that your hair will grow back. If you don't plan on making the military a career, I would say just hold on until your enlistment is over. After that, grow is down to your knees and sport a "duck-dynasty" beard along with it. But be advised that the "white-color-world" and some "blue-color" positions have dress codes too. I would love to have your "problem." BTW, I've been out of the military for eight years now, and still wear my hair basic training style...it's easier to keep the grey from showing and to maintain.
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PFC Pavlock, you need to decide something right now. What is more important to you--looking "cool" or soldiering?
I must be direct. You are a soldier, and your primary mission is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States--and when necessary, to close with and destroy the enemy by means of fire, maneuver and shock effect.
You are there to be the backbone of the United States of America. You are NOT there to be a male model.
I will tell you this: Skipping your chain of command is a sure way to misery. Your NCO's have the mission to ensure that YOUR part in the mission is accomplished. You do NOT work in a civilian organization, you do NOT have a collective bargaining agreement, and your job does not end at Retreat. You need to "Soldier Up!" and get focused.
If you devote as much time to accomplishing your mission, becoming tactically and technically proficient, keeping communication open between you and your NCO's, and MASTERING every facet of your job as you do your HAIR, you, young PFC, will be an awesome Soldier.
Now quit whining about your 'do and go get a haircut. It will have an opportunity to grow back. And if this is too much for you and you find it unbearable, then complete your enlistment with distinction and leave the military. But be well advised--the attitude you are showing now will NOT go well with a civilian employer.
I must be direct. You are a soldier, and your primary mission is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States--and when necessary, to close with and destroy the enemy by means of fire, maneuver and shock effect.
You are there to be the backbone of the United States of America. You are NOT there to be a male model.
I will tell you this: Skipping your chain of command is a sure way to misery. Your NCO's have the mission to ensure that YOUR part in the mission is accomplished. You do NOT work in a civilian organization, you do NOT have a collective bargaining agreement, and your job does not end at Retreat. You need to "Soldier Up!" and get focused.
If you devote as much time to accomplishing your mission, becoming tactically and technically proficient, keeping communication open between you and your NCO's, and MASTERING every facet of your job as you do your HAIR, you, young PFC, will be an awesome Soldier.
Now quit whining about your 'do and go get a haircut. It will have an opportunity to grow back. And if this is too much for you and you find it unbearable, then complete your enlistment with distinction and leave the military. But be well advised--the attitude you are showing now will NOT go well with a civilian employer.
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Hair usaully grows back. Choose your battles, an enemy today could be an alli tomorrow. You are a PFC... when you are a SSG this SSG may be a 1SG or SGM..fate tells all
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HEY GUYS, I POSTED A BETTER VERSION OF THIS WHOLE SITUATION WITH AN UPDATE ON HOW IT WENT, PLEASE GO READ IT!
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I would use my chain of command and open door policy. I had a similar issue with a NCO(e-5). We took it to the NCOIC and left the final decision in his hands. I was clearly in regs by the way.
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This sounds like the kind of catch-22 which anyone of just about any rank could find themselves in, when someone of higher rank, for known or unknown good or bad reasons seem to take a dislike of you and make life miserable. Being at the bottom of the food chain it doesn't appear like too many in your COC are willing to fall on their swords for you over this. Probably nothing you do or don't do will get the SSgt off your back around there. I would certainly try and avoid him at all costs if I could. Pls get back to RP & let us know how you fared on this situation and hopefully get it resolved so you can move past the perp.
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Just cut your hair! Seriously, do you want to piss off your leaders (even if you may be right), when the simple solution is to cut your hair? They gave you an order, and you are not following, but would rather go up the chain of command... How do you think your command perceives you (rightly or wrongly)! A haircut is not the Rubicon... there are more important things... besides, the sh@t is going to fall out or turn gray eventually anyway!
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CW3 (Join to see)
It is an unlawful order if his hair is within regs. If your CDR told you to stand on your head, even though he's wrong, would you do it just to please him?
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LT Brad McInnis
CW3 (Join to see) - We are assuming his hair is in regs. He told us, but he has superiors telling him that it isn't. My only point is just cut the hair, it isn't that big of a deal in the big scheme of things. Is it worth becoming the "trouble child" over hair? Really?
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CPT Charles Creed
Should NCO Leadership be bullying Soldiers over hair that is within regulation? As leaders we have to look at both perspectives; we have to back up our NCOs but we also have to advocate for our Soldiers. After seeing the pictures the PFC posted he is clearly within regs and one has to wonder why his SSG is wasting time, effort, and energy on something as simple as hair, especially when his SGT advocating for him.
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As someone once smarter than me said, do what your rank can handle. Is it a direct order? Yes. Is it unlawful, immoral? No. Get your haircut.
I have a PFC, who's hair is so nice, that we call him hair. Our BDE CSM hated his hair, our BN CSM thought it was fine. The Soldier got his haircut. It's not worth the hassle.
You seem like you want to prove a point. Well so does the SSG. He is not bullying you. He sees a perceived violation if the regulation. It's his interpretation, and the regulation is vague in this regard, it is open to interpretation.
Next, this SSG had command authority over you. So if your interpretation is different, he is just adding to the regulation. Maybe ask for it to be in a section SOP so that it better does out what he expects so that you don't falter.
I have a PFC, who's hair is so nice, that we call him hair. Our BDE CSM hated his hair, our BN CSM thought it was fine. The Soldier got his haircut. It's not worth the hassle.
You seem like you want to prove a point. Well so does the SSG. He is not bullying you. He sees a perceived violation if the regulation. It's his interpretation, and the regulation is vague in this regard, it is open to interpretation.
Next, this SSG had command authority over you. So if your interpretation is different, he is just adding to the regulation. Maybe ask for it to be in a section SOP so that it better does out what he expects so that you don't falter.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree, unless that SSG had a good reason. Again, it's good interpretation of the regs. And he should clearly defined what his interpretation means.
Side note, that very same BDE CSM hates my LTs hair, he is the AS3 at the BN, the LT has yet to fix it, and nothing has happened to him. So again, do what your rank can handle.
Side note, that very same BDE CSM hates my LTs hair, he is the AS3 at the BN, the LT has yet to fix it, and nothing has happened to him. So again, do what your rank can handle.
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SGM Erik Marquez
MAJ Bryan Zeski - What do you think?
Sir, assuming the leader in question is not a brain dead moron citing regs they have never read, the "get a hair cut" order will most always be a legal order from senior to subordinate
The reg states in part "neat appearance" which is a subjective standard based on personal opinion, it can not be disputed one on one SM to senior.
If SGM Marquez's hair is worn to the regulatory standard as far as the observable objective stipulations , but MAJ Zeski disagrees, states it is not neat and kept, get a hair cut now...That is his opinion and under the reg as valid as it comes... Marquez has two choice..get a hair cut that meets Maj Zeski's opinion of neat and kept, or seek concurrence from a more senior SM that his current hair cut meets policy and regulation. The order was legal, justifiable but still in error in this situation ...
Sir, assuming the leader in question is not a brain dead moron citing regs they have never read, the "get a hair cut" order will most always be a legal order from senior to subordinate
The reg states in part "neat appearance" which is a subjective standard based on personal opinion, it can not be disputed one on one SM to senior.
If SGM Marquez's hair is worn to the regulatory standard as far as the observable objective stipulations , but MAJ Zeski disagrees, states it is not neat and kept, get a hair cut now...That is his opinion and under the reg as valid as it comes... Marquez has two choice..get a hair cut that meets Maj Zeski's opinion of neat and kept, or seek concurrence from a more senior SM that his current hair cut meets policy and regulation. The order was legal, justifiable but still in error in this situation ...
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SGM Erik Marquez
SFC (Join to see) "As someone once smarter than me said, do what your rank can handle."
LOL I've recounted this story somewhere else on this site, but its appropriate here as well.
Once upon a time a generally high speed, squared away SSG reported to Airborne school for AB training. Promoted below the line, givien positons above grade, generally though well of in past units.. Said SSG stood in the first formation day one and was looking good, standing tall, fresh haircut no one could question, uniform ready, equipment items squared away.....
AND THEN...the world stopped turing.. A black hat noticed THE mustache, worn well within regs, sitting upon SSG Marquez's upper lip.......
Black Hat to fellow Black Hat... SGT, hey look here, a mustache...Looks like its in reg?
YUP, sure does....
Hey remember that guy that graduated with a mustach last year?
Umm, no
Oh thats right, he quit. Hey, when was the last time someone with a mustache graduated Basic Airborne training?
Hmm you, know, I dont think anyone ever has...
SGT Airborne, I need to use the latrine before we head to the training area...
701, you have 5 min..GO.
SSG Marquez graduated basic Airborne school June 1983........
LOL I've recounted this story somewhere else on this site, but its appropriate here as well.
Once upon a time a generally high speed, squared away SSG reported to Airborne school for AB training. Promoted below the line, givien positons above grade, generally though well of in past units.. Said SSG stood in the first formation day one and was looking good, standing tall, fresh haircut no one could question, uniform ready, equipment items squared away.....
AND THEN...the world stopped turing.. A black hat noticed THE mustache, worn well within regs, sitting upon SSG Marquez's upper lip.......
Black Hat to fellow Black Hat... SGT, hey look here, a mustache...Looks like its in reg?
YUP, sure does....
Hey remember that guy that graduated with a mustach last year?
Umm, no
Oh thats right, he quit. Hey, when was the last time someone with a mustache graduated Basic Airborne training?
Hmm you, know, I dont think anyone ever has...
SGT Airborne, I need to use the latrine before we head to the training area...
701, you have 5 min..GO.
SSG Marquez graduated basic Airborne school June 1983........
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Get the haircut to be within regulation after all hair grows back and this will relieve the tension. Both of you are angry and not willing to give in. Additionally you will PCS to a new unit or the 1SG will. The military survives on uniformity and teamwork and you must make the decision which is more important to you, your haircut or your duty.
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