Posted on Aug 15, 2023
How should the military community respond to veterans like Craig Robertson?
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Last week Air Force Veteran Craig Robertson was killed in an FBI raid at his home, after posting violent threats on social media including photos of guns that suggested assassination of certain political leaders. His family and neighbors say he never would have acted on those threats, he was active in his community, and he used social media to voice his grievances. How can we respond to veterans who act similar to him before things go too far?
Article for context: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/11/air-force-veteran-killed-after-threats-biden-believed-government-was-corrupt-overreaching.html
Article for context: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/11/air-force-veteran-killed-after-threats-biden-believed-government-was-corrupt-overreaching.html
Violence
Social Media
FBI
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 48
I see the comments on the thread are as predictable as the numerous posts on a daily basis "attacking the other side".
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff asked a question of someone if they could name a 'leftist' that publicly threatened Trump when he was president or since (not calling you out for asking the question - using it as a segway into my main point). In a quick 2-3 minute search of DOJ's cases and the Secret Service NTAC's website, I gathered quite a number: Jeffrey Boyd, Chase Colasurdo, Richard Ware, Bryan Moles, Andrew O’Keefe, Jared Brown, Steven Ford -- and the list goes on and on. I can easily pull up an extensive list for Biden, Obama, Bush, or anyone else that falls under Secret Service protection.
Regardless of who is in office, the Secret Service says that on average, there are 6-8 “more than bluster/venting” threats against the sitting President each day.
The majority of these people that do this are not "driven by political comments" someone says. They are driven because they want to blame someone for their problems, hear someone saying a message that resonates with them, and are mentally unbalanced enough to try and take it to the next level. There is a lot that goes into pushing someone like that over the edge, and comments by a politician (even repeated ones) are just one part of the issue.
Are Republicans, Trump, or Conservatives at fault for the actions of Craig Robertson? No.
Are Democrats, Sanders, or Liberals at fault for the actions of James Hodgkinson*? No.
Who is responsible? For many that are reading this, look in a mirror. The level of partisan demonization of "the other side" is off the charts. I see DOZENS of posts each day that are not to inform others about something that occurred, discuss issues with a view towards a resolution or any other motive other than denigrate “their political enemy”.
While many will attack “the other side” because of a policy they don’t like, the more extreme of our community will show blatant political bigotry* in anything (and everything) “the other side” does. ALL _____________ are liars, cheats, and vile human beings. How anyone could vote for ___________ is a wonder because is just shows how stupid or immoral they are.
The National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE), one of DHS’ center of excellence, did a study on “Understanding Threats to Public Officials”*. From 2013 to 2022, 501 federal charges were filed against individuals for making threats to public officials (42% of these were against elected officials, although not necessarily the President).
There was a significant uptick about a year after the last administration took over (~60%) and another about a year after the current administration took over (a bit less than 30%). Was any specific individual on the left responsible for the former or someone on the right for the later? Again, no.
But they all contribute to the problem with the divisive rhetoric.
Many on the left or right will ignore a person like Mr. Robertson or Mr. Hodgkinson unless these something showing they are "from the other side", then they focus all their attention showing that they are proof that “they” are nothing but a bunch of extremists. However, if it’s someone from “their side” that is doing it, then the partisans will attempt to distance themselves with as much alacrity as they try to tie other individuals and groups together when the roles are reversed.
Specific to SGT (Join to see)’s question. I’m in line with what SFC Kelly Fuerhoff said – see something, say something (if it appears to be a genuine threat of violence and not just someone ‘popping off’). It shouldn’t matter where on the political ideological continuum the individual making those threats falls, they should be reported.
If it was someone I had a relationship with, I would likely intervene if I didn’t think that they were an immediate threat to myself or others and see if I could help them with many, many of the mental health services that are available to veterans. If they continued with violent threats (regardless of seeking help or not), it would be time to alert the authorities.
I am in line with SFC Casey O'Mally with regards to the raid on his residence. There probably was a better way - take him down when he was outside the house, wait him out, something. There are some reports that he shot at those FBI agents that came in the house, so I'm not referring to their actions inside - shoot at law enforcement and they will shoot back. I'm referring to actions they could have taken outside of the residence, ESPECIALLY since reports are saying he had quite a number of weapons in there. I figure if you're going to arrest someone with a number of firearms you would at least do it when he was separated from them.
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* James Hodgkinson is the Sander’s supporter who committed a mass-shooting against the Republican team that was practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball game. https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-06/Hodgkinson.pdf
* National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE)
* Political Bigotry - https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/8176102
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff asked a question of someone if they could name a 'leftist' that publicly threatened Trump when he was president or since (not calling you out for asking the question - using it as a segway into my main point). In a quick 2-3 minute search of DOJ's cases and the Secret Service NTAC's website, I gathered quite a number: Jeffrey Boyd, Chase Colasurdo, Richard Ware, Bryan Moles, Andrew O’Keefe, Jared Brown, Steven Ford -- and the list goes on and on. I can easily pull up an extensive list for Biden, Obama, Bush, or anyone else that falls under Secret Service protection.
Regardless of who is in office, the Secret Service says that on average, there are 6-8 “more than bluster/venting” threats against the sitting President each day.
The majority of these people that do this are not "driven by political comments" someone says. They are driven because they want to blame someone for their problems, hear someone saying a message that resonates with them, and are mentally unbalanced enough to try and take it to the next level. There is a lot that goes into pushing someone like that over the edge, and comments by a politician (even repeated ones) are just one part of the issue.
Are Republicans, Trump, or Conservatives at fault for the actions of Craig Robertson? No.
Are Democrats, Sanders, or Liberals at fault for the actions of James Hodgkinson*? No.
Who is responsible? For many that are reading this, look in a mirror. The level of partisan demonization of "the other side" is off the charts. I see DOZENS of posts each day that are not to inform others about something that occurred, discuss issues with a view towards a resolution or any other motive other than denigrate “their political enemy”.
While many will attack “the other side” because of a policy they don’t like, the more extreme of our community will show blatant political bigotry* in anything (and everything) “the other side” does. ALL _____________ are liars, cheats, and vile human beings. How anyone could vote for ___________ is a wonder because is just shows how stupid or immoral they are.
The National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE), one of DHS’ center of excellence, did a study on “Understanding Threats to Public Officials”*. From 2013 to 2022, 501 federal charges were filed against individuals for making threats to public officials (42% of these were against elected officials, although not necessarily the President).
There was a significant uptick about a year after the last administration took over (~60%) and another about a year after the current administration took over (a bit less than 30%). Was any specific individual on the left responsible for the former or someone on the right for the later? Again, no.
But they all contribute to the problem with the divisive rhetoric.
Many on the left or right will ignore a person like Mr. Robertson or Mr. Hodgkinson unless these something showing they are "from the other side", then they focus all their attention showing that they are proof that “they” are nothing but a bunch of extremists. However, if it’s someone from “their side” that is doing it, then the partisans will attempt to distance themselves with as much alacrity as they try to tie other individuals and groups together when the roles are reversed.
Specific to SGT (Join to see)’s question. I’m in line with what SFC Kelly Fuerhoff said – see something, say something (if it appears to be a genuine threat of violence and not just someone ‘popping off’). It shouldn’t matter where on the political ideological continuum the individual making those threats falls, they should be reported.
If it was someone I had a relationship with, I would likely intervene if I didn’t think that they were an immediate threat to myself or others and see if I could help them with many, many of the mental health services that are available to veterans. If they continued with violent threats (regardless of seeking help or not), it would be time to alert the authorities.
I am in line with SFC Casey O'Mally with regards to the raid on his residence. There probably was a better way - take him down when he was outside the house, wait him out, something. There are some reports that he shot at those FBI agents that came in the house, so I'm not referring to their actions inside - shoot at law enforcement and they will shoot back. I'm referring to actions they could have taken outside of the residence, ESPECIALLY since reports are saying he had quite a number of weapons in there. I figure if you're going to arrest someone with a number of firearms you would at least do it when he was separated from them.
----------------------------------------
* James Hodgkinson is the Sander’s supporter who committed a mass-shooting against the Republican team that was practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball game. https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-06/Hodgkinson.pdf
* National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE)
* Political Bigotry - https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/8176102
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
LT William Pellegrini - True enough, however if yo u read the writings of our Founding Fathers, the permanent, professional political class we now have would be the exact opposite of what they intended. They desired citizen legislators, who would come to the Capitol to serve for a period before returning to their homes, business and communities as a citizen. Politics should not be a career choice which is what it has become.
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SSG Jack Simpson
I like to say two things about many, not all, of the people who become politicians. First is, Abraham Lincoln said in his Gettysburg Address that "This government, of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth." I say today's politicians say, "screw the people what's in it for me?" And that when the politicians put their hand on the Bible, and some don't do that today, as soon as their hand goes down it goes out making the gimme motion. Why is it that a large majority of politicians are much richer when they leave office then they should be based on their pay? Look at Pelosi, she's been found to be an insider trading criminal, yet nothing is done to her for it. My mom used to say "so and so would be turning over in their grave if i...." Our founding fathers are pinwheels today, I am sure. However, King George is probably laughing his skeleton butt off.
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SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
You can buy a "TRUMP" Bobblehead. Read that he said "Any civilian award I gave is more valuable than a PURPLE HEART".
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Why does the military community need to respond? What can other veterans do to stop someone making threats? Especially if they are strangers? His family knew and they didn't care to do anything...saying "oh he'd never act on it." FAFO.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LTC Lance Headrick - *Her. I'm a woman. It says female in my bio. I have no control on the generic avatar...but I'm a she.
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LTC Lance Headrick
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff I did not think that was your nuclear option.
I did not want you to think it was some hidden expression....and it doesn't not hurt or cost me to acknowledge an error. Helps me believe I am polite too....or so I suppose. Have a great long weekend.
I did not want you to think it was some hidden expression....and it doesn't not hurt or cost me to acknowledge an error. Helps me believe I am polite too....or so I suppose. Have a great long weekend.
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Personal opinion: Ensure that we know all the facts. Craig Robertson allegedly taunted the FBI and pointed a gun at agents during the raid.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/trump-supporter-craig-robertson-was-shot-and-killed-after-pointing-a-357-magnum-at-feds-fbi/
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/trump-supporter-craig-robertson-was-shot-and-killed-after-pointing-a-357-magnum-at-feds-fbi/
Trump supporter shot and killed during FBI raid was pointing .357 Magnum at feds
Craig Robertson, 75, pointed a .357 Magnum revolver at FBI agents who were executing a search warrant at his Utah home last week.
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PO2 Robert Carrillo
Socialism and communism never worked if so why are they coming here, and yes I'm bugged you forgot why some gave all you dishonor them and me!
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SFC Howard Holmes
PO2 Robert Carrillo - Not ONLY that, but the escapees from those countries do so with their lives and the lives of their families in grave danger. I don't know anybody who leaves the U.S., who's life is in danger BECAUSE they left. If they had criminal endeavors, mob related, etc., well, that could be a problem. The major issue with so many people who read these Communist/Marxist/Socialistic books is, yes, ON PAPER, they are close to being the most perfect forms of government there can be - but the problem is, Jesus Christ is the ONLY individual who could run it in the intended manor. Man is greedy, power hungry, controlling, and on and on, so therefore, it could NEVER work with a normal human being on earth, they would have to be perfect. I don't know why they read only books on the theoretics and workings of these tyrannical governments, but they never research what happens during and after the uprisings and takeovers. They need to read about the Stasi and their tactics and what they did to the East German Citizens.
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CPL David Widding
SPC (Join to see) Not to bring the truth into thus conversation but the FBI has a long proven record of telling lies to obtain warrents. The DOJ has fabricated evidents to help the FBI lie to judges so getting a warrent does not nean a lot.
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