Posted on Jun 30, 2016
How will the military handle transgendered and APFT/AR 600-9?
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With the lifting of the ban on transgender service members openly serving, I have a serious question about the APFT standards as well as the Ht/Wt standards.
If a biological male SM declares himself to be a transgender (aka identifies as female) does that SM get to take the APFT based on the female standards for his(her) age?
And do the female standards for body fat percentage apply as well?
Has anyone really thought about the impact of this? How does this work? As an NCO, how do I score an APFT for this individual? Do I need a female NCO to tape this SM? How does SHARP adjust?
If a biological male SM declares himself to be a transgender (aka identifies as female) does that SM get to take the APFT based on the female standards for his(her) age?
And do the female standards for body fat percentage apply as well?
Has anyone really thought about the impact of this? How does this work? As an NCO, how do I score an APFT for this individual? Do I need a female NCO to tape this SM? How does SHARP adjust?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 56
SGT (Join to see) Split the difference between the male and female standards at a given age, and call it the TG standards. Biological females who identify as males will have to work harder to maintain standards, and biological males who identify as females will have loosened standards. They would have to add measurement standards such as hips and chest to the male standard to compensate for the new standards in the Body Fat Measurement, but that is about it. Otherwise you are looking at, your APFT is based on what is under one's PT Belt rather than how one gender identifies.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
How about we just let anyone that wants to serve just put on a uniform and show up one day. I know some 500 lb dudes that are 5 foot 6 that can fly a drone and never leave the comfort of a lazy boy.....damn....KumBaYah....Oh Wait....that's right, we have to get our arses kicked really really hard to ever learn a lesson...Got it.
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PO1 (Join to see)
He's only 500 lbs, 5 ft 6 if that's how he identifies himself as, if he identifies as a 180 lb Argentinian soccer player you have to pretend like you agree because you are not in a position to say otherwise. You don't know whats going on in his head.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
A couple times I have thought about Identifying as a Beagle because we have lots of Rabbits on my place and it is not rabbit season but I WANT FRESH RABBIT DAMN IT! So if I were a Beagle, I would not need it to be Rabbit Season so I could have what I want and the Game Warden would ave to accept it.
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This is a great question. I feel with this ban being lifted may lead to getting rid of the current APFT and go to more of a tactical military movement type test such as shuttle runs, buddy carries and other events.
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The Army does not really recognize gender anymore. Although it has still yet to be hashed out officially, they will take the APFT based on the sex they were born with.
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MAJ (Join to see)
How will the grader know what sex they were born? Is that going to be added to the admin portion at the top?
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SSG Roger Ayscue
MAJ (Join to see) - No offense, but you can tell...I have never seen a TG male to female that looked totally female, nor the other way about. Unless you have tat Adam's Apple shaved down...Damn, Really? How about we worry about winning the war?
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Scottie ..... Beam me up, there is no intelligence on this planet.
Honestly I think they may have to resort to AFPT based on MOS requirements, not gender. They must keep the fighting force strong I don't give a rats ass about Political Correctness either they can do the job or they are gone Period.
Honestly I think they may have to resort to AFPT based on MOS requirements, not gender. They must keep the fighting force strong I don't give a rats ass about Political Correctness either they can do the job or they are gone Period.
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This is not rocket science. You are tested according to the applicable standard, for your officially listed gender, at time of the test. If the Army decides the individual needs a new gender, they will, in their own time, "issue them a new one" when all proper forms and signatures have been copied several times, and that will change the applicable standard.
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I think that there are too many questions left unanswered by the DoD at this time.
I personally dont care what a person does in their life after duty hours. However when in uniform, all of us should conduct ourselves as professionals. The military is a volunteer based profession, not mandated. You raised your right hand and took the same oath those before us did. In by taking that oath, you knew you would be held to the same standards as everyone else as per DoD guidelines for each perspective branch of service. Those that have voiced their opinions about not being treated "fairly" because they identify differently than others, in my opinion should have thought harder about choosing military service. The military isnt a social experiment, it isnt a place where everyone gets a participation trophy (to some degree it can be). Its not about "you and your feelings", Its about protecting this country. It will be interesting to see how far the "Left" keeps pushing the social boundries of the rank and file. Sikhs can grow full beards and wear a ACU/Multicam turbins, females can say they are males and vice versa. Whats next? How can we take and segregate the military even more? Has anyone thought about billeting? Has anyone thought about open showers in billeting? Has anyone thought about how a straight soldier, male or female feels about a member of the opposite sex showering with them, even if they identify mentally as a member of that same sex? Do you segregate and create transgender barracks? So straight soldiers will feel comfortable too? Do you segreate and create openly gay only barracks so that those who are straight feel comfortable that a gay female or male soldier istt checking them out? Im only asking these questions because as an NCO, you know someone will eventually come to you asking these questions. Remember, no question is a stupid question, even if you think it is. Junior enlisted look to us for answers.
If we are to make exceptions for the feelings of openly gay and transgendered soldiers then the DoD must take in account the feelings of straight soldiers. I fear that Pandoras box has been opened and that it will be some time before the DoD gets it all figured out. Until then, NCO's will have to work with leadership to make sure all of their soldiers are treated fairly and come up with viable solutions that fit everyone.
I personally dont care what a person does in their life after duty hours. However when in uniform, all of us should conduct ourselves as professionals. The military is a volunteer based profession, not mandated. You raised your right hand and took the same oath those before us did. In by taking that oath, you knew you would be held to the same standards as everyone else as per DoD guidelines for each perspective branch of service. Those that have voiced their opinions about not being treated "fairly" because they identify differently than others, in my opinion should have thought harder about choosing military service. The military isnt a social experiment, it isnt a place where everyone gets a participation trophy (to some degree it can be). Its not about "you and your feelings", Its about protecting this country. It will be interesting to see how far the "Left" keeps pushing the social boundries of the rank and file. Sikhs can grow full beards and wear a ACU/Multicam turbins, females can say they are males and vice versa. Whats next? How can we take and segregate the military even more? Has anyone thought about billeting? Has anyone thought about open showers in billeting? Has anyone thought about how a straight soldier, male or female feels about a member of the opposite sex showering with them, even if they identify mentally as a member of that same sex? Do you segregate and create transgender barracks? So straight soldiers will feel comfortable too? Do you segreate and create openly gay only barracks so that those who are straight feel comfortable that a gay female or male soldier istt checking them out? Im only asking these questions because as an NCO, you know someone will eventually come to you asking these questions. Remember, no question is a stupid question, even if you think it is. Junior enlisted look to us for answers.
If we are to make exceptions for the feelings of openly gay and transgendered soldiers then the DoD must take in account the feelings of straight soldiers. I fear that Pandoras box has been opened and that it will be some time before the DoD gets it all figured out. Until then, NCO's will have to work with leadership to make sure all of their soldiers are treated fairly and come up with viable solutions that fit everyone.
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It's interesting that this question came up. I was having this same discussion with a fellow soldier recently. There is a transgender female to male in my unit. This person is a good soldier, but I don't think there would be any way for this soldier to pass the pt test under the mens standards. It will be interesting to see what changes are made if any.
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Speaking for self I would say whatever the SM joined as is what I am using
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They need to just have the apft scale meet somewhere in the middle and regardless of gender the requirements would be the same . Holy moly that would be like Equality or something
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