Posted on Aug 30, 2016
CW2 Mobility Officer
16K
168
118
4
4
0
This Soldier was transferred to me because their previous SL was ineffective. I had them write an introductory auto-Bio for me and the SM admitted that they were diagnosed with an untreated learning disability as a child (I already suspected). SM had served nearly 7 years as a reservist and had difficulty with basic training tasks, repeatedly lost equipment, and had serious socialization issues.
Posted in these groups: Leadership development Leadership Development
Avatar feed
Responses: 69
SSgt Javier Abrego
2
2
0
I may be a cold hearted asshole but your learning issue should not be my problem. If you can't get your shit together and be effective then your no use to the unit. I'm getting tired of others yielding / accommodating people who can't make the grade. If you can't read or write or see the right color or whatever your issue is...figure out a system. Because if you're just now( at this level) figuring it out, your wasting other people's time. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. My 2 cents
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG John Karr
2
2
0
Funny thing... we had just such an individual once and his disabilities were severe. We first noticed that something was wrong when he would repeatedly get lost in the building and one day we got a phone call from another unit to come pick up our soldier because he got lost on the base. He would often be seen playing with toy planes in the shower. He was a Stinger gunner and could not identify a single plane as "friend or foe". Finally his section Sargent had had enough and took it to the CO and demanded he get a psyche-eval.

Turned out our soldier was mentally retarded. That of course launched a number of investigations as to how did he get into the Army in the first place and how did he get through Basic and AIT. Seems his mother took him to a recruiter and begged him to get her son in the Army. The recruiter had to forge his ASVAB scores... and for that he got a year in Leavenworth with a DD. Next came his Drill Sargent who did not want to look bad at having a shitbird in his platoon... he got off light with just a DD. Finally came his AIT instructor who figured if he made it through Basic he could make it through AIT. Apparently he had some extenuating circumstances and got off with only an FG Article 15.

It became my job to escort this guy to Rein Main AB and see that he got on the plane. Between my driver and myself one of us had to stay up all night and make sure our charge did not wander off. The next day we took him to Customs where the MP told him to empty his duffel bag which had none of his issue uniforms, etc. but was full of toys. The look on the MP's face was incredulous so I showed him a copy of his orders and explained the reason the soldier was headed home. With that I grabbed one of the other soldiers on his flight and asked him to make sure that he made it to the other end of his trip to the States. I have no idea what happened to him on the other end, I hope he made it home.
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Jennifer Disch
TSgt Jennifer Disch
9 y
How did he get through MEPS?
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSG John Karr
SSG John Karr
9 y
I have no idea how he made it through MEPS. The fact that he made it through Basic AND AIT is simply amazing. I'm guessing MEPS only looked to see if he was healthy.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Current Operations (Cuops)
SFC (Join to see)
9 y
Nothing against disabled people, but I laughed so hard at this. Think about the number of "professional leaders" that guy slipped past before that point. Now all I can think about is Forrest Gump's DS raving about how genius he is.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SMSgt Materiel Management
2
2
0
It depends on how close to retirement you are. If you're in your last enlistment, you should do what should have been done: recommend up the chain of command that the soldier be Separated for the Good of the Service.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Jody Beach
2
2
0
Sounds like politics at play. Should not be in the service. Simple question.... Would you trust this soldier with your life?
(2)
Comment
(0)
CW2 Mobility Officer
CW2 (Join to see)
>1 y
No. I told them as such. However I am still responsible for them and the Soldiers around them. I hate to lose also. The inability to bring this to any safe and acceptable conclusion has been an epic failure on my part.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGT Jody Beach
SGT Jody Beach
>1 y
SSG Goeller your not failing. Put your heart aside and look at from a business standpoint. Having problems with simple task put all your soldiers at risk. If this soldier is responsible for only one thing and can not be trusted to do it then that is a serious problem. Not saying he is a bad soldier. I had someone working for me about ten years ago. Had problems doing retaining simplest task. Someone told me that I could train them. My response to that was that some people just reach a point where they are at full capacity. It is not a bad thing but it is a real thing. Perhaps this person would be better off in supply or some sort of warehouse. Only way you lose is by allowing this soldier to continue to drag your team down.
I also as a civilian with my own shop face these problems every time I hire a new guy. Sometimes you just gotta cut them lose before they destroy you......
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
GySgt Charles O'Connell
2
2
0
I have to ask this before I can form an answer to the original question, "how does someone get automatically promoted?"
(2)
Comment
(0)
CW2 Mobility Officer
CW2 (Join to see)
>1 y
Fantastic question gunny. I'm not sure I have the complete answer. My understanding was that the 31B MOS was critically short in E-5 positions. The bright idea fairy somewhere said hey lets promote some E-4s that meet TIG and TIS and have finished a laughable online class. The end result was about 18 junior Soldiers (Company wide) were boarded based on this information alone. Promotion orders appeared and LESs reflected a new grade but the Soldiers never sought a promotion. Many were just as shocked as we were.
(0)
Reply
(0)
GySgt Charles O'Connell
GySgt Charles O'Connell
>1 y
Okay SSG, that answers a few things. Aside from progression from Pvt-L/Cpl (E-1 - E-3) were any promotion "automatic". This soldier has passed service entrance standards, completed his MOS training successfully, and has been serving for 7 years. In the absence of disciplinary action they can't be demoted. Based on a period of documented substandard performance, where guidance and direction was give to correct substandard performance, the individual can be reduced in grade and assigned duties within their abilities. The question of "diagnosed" learning disability is odd. Who diagnosed them, and was this disclosed at enlistment?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Civil Affairs Team Sergeant
2
2
0
The military should not be a social experiment where everyone gets to play. I have nothing personal against those with learning disabilities and social disorders, they just do not belong in a forum where their issues can get others killed or injured. Get him help and separated if need be.

SFC A.
"RLTW"
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Mike Lewis
2
2
0
The first step is to address the primary issue and get a diagnosis. the Soldier's issue is one that is incompatible with military service per regulation, it is what it is and needs to be handled accordingly. If it's one that can be treated, then seek treatment and/or therapy. Meanwhile, counsel the Soldier that his performance is not what's expected of a SGT and will improve or further action will be taken to protect the mission, the organization, and fellow Soldiers. If therapy works and his performance improves to meet standards, that's great. If not, administrative reduction boards exist for a reason.

Without knowing details this situation brings bigger problems to light. First, automatic promotions to SGT. If a Soldier hasn't been boarded, there's a reason that leadership within the unit has identified. Auto promotion is terrible when talking about the NCO Corps.

Second is the SPC ranks. I've seen many E-5s that are decent Soldiers but had no business in leadership roles. These are Sergeants (rank), not Noncommissioned Officers. SPEC5 was gone before my time, but it may be a good idea to bring it back. Let a Soldier develop further if needed and be boarded as an E-5 to become an NCO. If incapable of succeeding then, well it's time to go. Not making SGT and succeeding to make SSG is a way to thin the herd while allowing a Soldier to develop without stripes, where he further weakens the NCO Corps.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
2
2
0
I've dealt with this before. What it boiled down to is, if the problem doesn't prevent him from performing his job than he is in clear; nothing you can do except track his mistakes on paper. He has to be diagnosed with a specific learning disability and that disability has to affect his performance. The psychologist is the one who recommends chapter for this.
(2)
Comment
(0)
CW2 Mobility Officer
CW2 (Join to see)
>1 y
Thank you for bringing this up. Did the chain of command order the Soldier to be evaluated based on performance in your situation?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Absolutely. I went in with 2 counselings and pushed for him to be recommended for testing. I had one of my SGTs take him. It took a while, but he got chartered out. It's hard to do if you don't have the support of your COC.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Terry Back (Martin-Back)
2
2
0
I really find this story difficult to grasp. First, how did the SM get through Basic/AIT without being counseled and returned/chaptered for inability to adapt? To often in the military, (and in business), we focus to much of our time with the weakest links of our chain, instead of focusing on the strongest links and making them stronger. The best thing you can do for this SM is use the systems/facilities you have at hand, document and counsel the SM and send them down the road. The job of an NCO is to supervise and train "all" of the troops they are appointed over and not focus on one. Your unit is only as strong as it's weakest link; would you put your life on the line and trust that link?
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Small Arms/Artillery Repairer
2
2
0
That is a hard one, I say this be sure he is somehow an NCO and you don't want Soldiers to see you lowering the standards, even though I suspect the Soldiers know this NCO has a learning disability. I say get him evaluated step one, then get with your COC / NCO Support Channel step 2 to find a job this guy can do where he is away from working with a lot of Soldiers. The good thing is he is a reservist, the bad thing is someone along the way definitely did not do their job.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close