Posted on Apr 23, 2014
CPT Brandon Christensen
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I know this is going to be a very controversial topic in society once this progresses, but I am looking at it military stand point.

If this became legal and common, what do you think would happen to the military? ie if we could clone humans, why not just clone the "perfect" service member that can do it all and create a force of that person to do the conflicts? It would basically be a robot military but with humans.

Thoughts?

Posted in these groups: Back to the future part ii original Future
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SFC Stephen P.
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1. Genetic diversity is an important element for the prolonged survival of any species.

2. The U.S. frowns upon slavery.
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
What if they were treated like normal natural born humans, but expendable like SFC Emily Wesemann stated?

Would you say having these clones change the survival rate for natural born humans? (natural selection)
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SFC Stephen P.
SFC Stephen P.
12 y
Sir, if they are treated the same as natural born humans and not coerced into service, I suspect the program would be a huge waste of resources.

The cost of producing the embryos may be minor, but implantation is costly. It is unlikely that you will find sufficient women to voluntarily pay for the procedure, carry to term, and raise to the age of majority. Even with subsidies, I don't suspect you will have lines around the block signing up to be axlotl tanks.

If there were a sufficiently motivated or desperate population, how many of the resultant perfect troops would be motivated to serve? How many as a result of environment would remain medically, educationally, and morally qualified?

The return on investment without the employment of compulsory service doesn't make sense.
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
I know I am playing the what if game here, but what if they were to develop a way to speed the process of aging and a way for the specimen to develop fully in the first 9 months without being in another human? I have a feeling this may be pushing boundaries a little and could lead to an off topic discussion :)
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SFC Stephen P.
SFC Stephen P.
12 y
If we only eliminate the gestation period, you still have a minimum of 16 years of development before enlistment eligibility. This eliminates one problem out of many, but not enough to be viable. Who will raise these children?

Eliminate the development phases and we would then have an age limit to deal with. Overcoming that, the educational requirements would still take around 10 years (I think I saw somewhere that 8th grade was the bare minimum requirement for enlistment)

If we somehow managed to create a factory for fully developed educationally qualified humans, you might be able to provide and illusion of choice when it comes to service. If the alternative is to drop them in the civilian market with absolutely no support structure, it isn't much of a choice at all.

If they are unable to make a qualified decision, the service is at best coercive if not compulsory.

The only outcomes I can see are that it will be ineffectual, or an anathema to a free society.
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SSgt Investigative Analyst
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Blade Runner comes to mind.


A force of "perfect" service members (with free will and guns, no less), bred for conflict by a civilization that can create clone after clone of the same person, would soon realize they are death-dealing slaves, and rebel.


We would repress the human desire for freedom to keep from fighting our own wars. And that’s another thing. We would sanitize the war experience by sending in clones to do the work, and lose the horrific perception of armed conflict. War would never end, because it would never have to.


And how would we treat these clones if they integrated into our society of “natural born” humans? Veterans have a hard enough time, now we have vets from a test tube that no nothing but conflict. Nevermind their vet status, would we even treat them as equal humans?

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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
Interesting. Would it be wise to just keep them on an active duty post, train then like "normal humans" and send them out (to combat) when needed and not integrate them into society, just bred for military obligations. I know they may sound cruel and inhuman.

Would a test tube service member be worth more, less or equal to a natural born human?

These test tube members wouldn't know the joys of being free and what we experience on a day to day basis, so in essence, they don't know what they are missing (again, cruel and inhuman), since they haven't experienced it.
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
good movie by the way :)
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MSG Usarec Liason At Nrpc/Nara
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Bad idea...I find myself thinking of storm troopers now. Expendable not free thinking...nope I don't like it
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
good point. Only improvement that could be taken would be at the top, whom are making the choices. Since they would be fighting over tactics and how it should be handled.
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SPC Soldier
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12 y
what if they all come out dumb and have no motor skills because their brains couldn't be cloned right because of the complexity of humans?
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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12 y
They can clone humans but cant replace cartiledge in the knee? lol thats crazy right.
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
That is true SPC Smale. This is all based off that the cloning process was perfect and actually created an exact replica of that specimen with no issues.
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Human cloning
SGT Emergency Care Sergeant
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Clone an Army of Chuck Norris. PROBLEM SOLVED!!
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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
HAHAHAHA that definitely would solve all problems world wide!
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SSG Laureano Pabon
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I personally cloned my son in my image and he is ok. Many parents who have children and give them away for adoption for reasons which they may face forget that the ones they are giving always for a better life soon will be adults with feelings and will attempt to fine closure. questions like where did I came from, why was I given away for adoption, whom am I what's my real race, Well that sort of thing.

To clone a human for combat purposes is like to make babies whose purpose if to fight. When talking about stem cell, remember they are humans and may find some sort of resentment. One thing is they will have eyes, ears, they will breath the same air, eat the same food and learn the same way. So with this how would they feel to see us (the not clone), having children with a father, mother brothers and sisters celebrating all these holidays as a family while they remain isolated reserved for the purpose of combat only?

 Even if these clones were giving to real parents to raise for the Feds, it would be really hard to accept that idea by those parents, that someday they have to give back what is not there's to the Feds so they fight and get killed like as if nothing really mattered.

On the other hand, if the USA can do it so can any other country, and if they clone as well, then we as humans had better get our ethics together because we will be way off track. Now if I ever find out that such a clone was made I'm going to steal it and raise it myself the normal way. To allow a human clone to fight for my freedom is not required, I can do that myself. But to make a clone for that purpose would be a criminal act in life.  Thanks for making this thread 1st LT (P) Christensen it is very interesting :)

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SSG Laureano Pabon
SSG Laureano Pabon
12 y

Hollywood has a tendency to create many movies with imaginations that may seem unreal, Star Trek was one. During that time, someone in NASA designed ships to go to space. What was unreal became a reality we now live. So Hollywood was only showed someone's idea to present to the public as entertainment and that idea now became a mission.

Another movie was also made by Arnold Schwarzenegger that is similar to the of this topic. However again it was someone's idea.

By that I don't mean Twins  LOL:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnFcN2CMNps


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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
haha. True. This could turn out to be like the Terminator movie franchise, except for the robotic bone structure.
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SSG Laureano Pabon
SSG Laureano Pabon
12 y

Ok sir, What's funny about this is that today, my father-in law's home attendant was here mopping the floor, funny thing is that she wore the same type of cloths my wife wears and there the same height and my wife was also in the house cleaning, well I almost approached the home attendant and slacked her in the rear, only I held back and started to look for my wife whom was cleaning my sons room wearing totally different cloths. They looked identical from the back and when I told my wife that she just up and laughed. She told me I should of, lol

Kind of made me think about this thread.

So with that in mind if I were cloned as an adult that would be a rather confusing world for my wife to have 2 of me around.

On the other hand, if I were cloned starting from baby, to make the perfect SM, I would take that very personal, because its me all over again and I'm sure my wife would love that too, raising me personally or the perfect mini me lol


Now as for the movie I stated above this is the one I was talking about:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Es_rxZqzV4

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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
Nice story! I love it. 

I was thinking more along these lines: Hypothetically you are that perfect SM (not saying you are or are not) the military would clone your DNA, make that test tube SM, and they would be raising that child, if any raising would be needed. Maybe they can speed the process of growing them faster. Anyways, you wouldn't have to do any raising of that SM. Just knowing you created a "super human race" for the military. Military would take control and pay and do everything for that clone.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
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I've constantly been curious about using clone slugs or possibly robotic drone bodies to function as a military. I think that it would just drag out wars and make them more economic instead of about lives and political ramification. Essentially making war more trivial.


Besides that, why would I want another one of me? I'm already too awesome for words.

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CPT Brandon Christensen
CPT Brandon Christensen
12 y
But two of you would be double the fun or "awesomeness" Just think of what you could accomplish at home and while wearing the uniform.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
CPT Zachary Brooks
12 y
I think the wife would be happy.
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MAJ Brigade Logistics Officer (S4)
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The "perfect soldier" is created from a large number of factors. Genetic traits are probably the least of those. Strength, agility, etc, definitely help a soldier, but integrity, the drive to succeed, adaptability, and other factors weigh more heavily, and are the largely product of environment and training. While it's true that the army could raise the clones from childhood in an attempt to control those factors, they could just as easily control those factors by conscripting children and raising them to be soldiers. So I would say cloning, in and of itself, is sort of a non-issue because it won't create a perfect soldier by itself. As for whether the army should start conscripting children to train them up "right"...well, I'd say no, but that's an entirely different controversial topic.
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