Posted on Mar 29, 2018
SSG Jeffrey Leake
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CJ Grisham, President of Open Carry Texas, Army veteran and recent candidate for State Representative in District 55, along with a couple of other people was arrested yesterday in Olmos Park, TX (Bexar County). He was tazed and subsequently injured in that arrest with a head injury and was hospitalized. I was told that the head injury was a large gash on the back of the head. He also suffered numerous scrapes on his wrists and arms.

Grisham and crew were legally opening carrying pistols and long guns in response to an event last week when an Olmos Park police officer drew guns on and detained someone with a protest sign solely for the reason of open carrying a pistol (which turned out to be a training fake).

Grisham had a phone conversation with the Olmos Park Police Chief, Rene Valenciano about their policies, etc. in which the chief seemed entirely unconcerned with his officers illegally detaining people for a perfectly legal activity. (The conversation will be linked in the comments below).

Grisham and crew went to Olmos Park yesterday and were legally and peacefully open carrying and got arrested for it. There is a video of the arrest. There was no articulated probable cause for the arrest. The police showed up, including Chief Valenciano and ordered Grisham and his crew to the ground. Grisham at least refused. It was Valenciano that personally tazed and arrested Grisham.

Between the phone call and video from the site, it's very clear this was an illegal arrest by an oath breaking police officer and they will be held accountable.
Posted in these groups: Open carry logo Open Carry7c2cc64 Bexar County
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Responses: 432
SGT James Murphy
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While I am NOT a fan of Open Carry, I support it 100% as it IS Constitutional. The reason I don't like open carry is that it can be used in inappropriate situations and cause more harm than good. So Standing on the 2nd Amendment YES they were 100% within their Rights. Would I do it? No. I Conceal Carry 100% of the time then there are no inappropriate situations. Hope I never have to use my training.
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SGT Cavalry Scout
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Having worked in civil litigation for years (as a non-attorney) in this particular area, my advice to folks finding themselves in an adverse confrontation with police is always the same: Fight it in court and not in the street. Most of the time you are at a great disadvantage in the street and more often than not if you win your suit, you are not walking away with more money if you got hurt. In all 50 states and territories, a police officer must have to be able to articulate reasonable (in the common sense) suspicion that a crime is about to occur, is occurring, or has occurred, in order to detain a person believed to be involved, i.e. give them some sort of order to comply with. If you happen to disagree with your detention or arrest (in the case that probable cause either by observation or in the course of the detention supposedly arises), I advise to comply with all non self-incriminatory demands, (do not admit guilt or knowledge of having committed an offense, do not answer and ask for an attorney when questioned regarding any potential offenses), and instead of focusing on how angry you are or on the dilemmas of the situation, take careful mental notes of everything happening, highlighting behavior or restrictions or actions against you, that you believe are in violation of your rights. It is by far more beneficial to have the most accurate recollection of the events than a blur of profanities or physical violence. Stay courteous but firm regarding your 5th amendment rights. If you are protesting or otherwise exercising your 1st amendment rights, always have a person not directly involved in your action on the sideline video taping the event (if you can get a friendly press person or completely neutral person/ friend to cover your event, even better). In that case, also be sure you do not violate any laws. I advise brushing up on local and state laws and city/county ordinances governing public and private places (such as sidewalks, roads, and parking lots - there are many little perhaps even nonsensical ordinances that often are a misdemeanor offense). In any case, your attorney will be your best weapon in this fight. There are many that solely deal with this type of case. A good attorney will properly filter the legal aspects of the situation and be able discern which perceived rights violations are real and which are not (this is why you should do your best to commit as much detail of your confrontation to memory as possible). There are entire organizations dedicated to protecting people in confrontations with government authority (ACLU for eg. they also have a myriad of good advice for such confrontations). Your veracity in testimony will be by far less scrutinized by the trier of facts (the court) if your behavior during the arrest was exemplary. In this type of situation always consider yourself in court beginning with the first order given to you by a police officer (this is why you need to stay calm, cool, and collected, no matter how offensive it may be to you). Largely our courts still work. If not for you, there are court of appeals. I don't believe anything that any side posts publicly, as it is almost always a distortion of the facts in order to attempt to influence the outcome of the ongoing or future litigation. Read actual court transcripts when they are public, to see what really happened. In this case, it would have been by far more becoming to comply with the orders as given (no matter how much they appeared to be a blatant violation of rights), and then seeing this out in court.To me it appears (just from the info I have) that both sides here could have acted more appropriately.
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SPC Carmen Ramirez
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I saw the video, where Grisham went wrong was that when the deputy was taking the gun off him, he grabbed the rifle by instinct. The officer responded as any officer would do. It is my opinion that since Texas is an open carry state, every gun nut will carry openly even if they themselves legally cannot carry. If the officer was responding to calls, he is obligated to assess whether the person carrying is not a felon or in the commission of a crime. I know lots of snowflakes snitch and they love this kind of stuff but, if there was no complaint then i wonder why the officer stopped him to begin with.
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SrA Les Dunaway
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It's important to remember and understand that there are locales in TX, and in most states where laws and rights are not enforced and protected. Cities / counties / states have been taken over by leftwing anti-Americans
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AN Ron Wright
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wrong on so many levels of following the law which the chief did not do
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COL William Oseles
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The police chief needs to be arrested for abuse of power and false arrest.
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PO1 George White
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Edited >1 y ago
Who was out of line? Damn, goes without saying. The ones who broke the law, Chief Valenciano and crew.

But, what the hell guys, with a national example of law breaking and corruption, is it any surprise that a police chief comes to believe he is a law onto himself?
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SSG Jeffrey Leake
SSG Jeffrey Leake
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Valid point.
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Sgt Robert Lombard
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My geezerly take on this is that the police chief broke a few of the laws he swore to enforce, and that Mr. Grisham was politically motivated rather than patriotically motivated. Both of them screwed up, driven by their egos.
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LTC John Wilson
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Texas is an "Open Carry" state, BUT there are narrow prohibitions to open carry in the state.
To answer the question, we must apply Texas law as listed under Section 30.07 of the Texas Penal Code (https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm#30.07). Based on my reading of the statute, my Texas CCW training, and the account provided above, it is not clear that Grisham or any one else involved in the event were in violation of Open Carry restrictions. They MAY have been in violation, or they MAY NOT have been in violation.

First, the account is slim and slanted in a way that places the Police in a bad light. The account refers to a video of the arrest, but no link is provided. I found a video account here (https://youtu.be/P8HD30xkSXk), and subsequent video coverage ongoing. This has been more illuminating, but not particularly decisive on their own merits.

Among the news reports cataloged on YouTube after he incident, Olmos Park has a city ordinance that countermands Texas State Law and prohibits the open carry of firearms, which apparently was the genesis of the "event" listed above -- i.e. a Open Carry protest of the Olmos Park ordinance.

So, we have a few questions to wrestle with. First, is the Olmos Park ordinance legal? According to an originalist view of the U.S. Constitution (notably Amendments II and XIV), the Olmos Park ordinance is certainly unconstitutional. But there are numerous statutes and ordinances across the nation that violate the Constitution. I could not find anything within the Texas Law that authorizes or prohibits a municipality passing a law against Open Carry. The Olmos Park government apparently believes that they do have the power or right to, and Open Carry Texas believes that they do not have such power or right. Ergo, we have a conflict that Open Carry Texas sought to reconcile through Civil Disobedience -- and thus the ensuing conflict referenced above.

Second, did Open Carry Texas cross the line? From the point of view of the Olmos Park Government and Police, the answer is an emphatic YES! I would contend NO! The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is an unalienable right protected under the U.S. Constitution. It should not even require a Texas State Law to protect this right; however, such a law exists and reinforces the Natural Right. Moreover, when confronted by what they perceived as "abusive" and "unlawful" exercise of police force, the Open Carry Texas participants did not respond with in-kind deadly force -- even though some might argue they had every right and authority to exercise by our own Foundational precedent (Note: Lexington and Concord). So, while OCT certainly creeped a toe right up to it, I believe any reasonable person would have to conclude that OCT did NOT "cross the line."

Third, did OPPD cross the line? When confronted with what they felt was an "armed and hostile" threat (from their perspective), they certainly may have felt they were well within their authority. Moreover, they were enforcing a municipal law that they felt was valid. However, If we view the municipal law through the permissions to restrict open carry afforded by Texas State Law, the OPPD most assuredly cross the line.

Section 30.07 of the Texas Penal Code DOES grant limited restrictions to Open Carry of Firearms. But, even under these, the offense of carrying the weapon where it is treated as a "...Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart." If we assume that Olmos Park was exercising the right of a "property owner" under this statute, their first duty was to inform the OCT folks that they had a duty to depart -- at which point only a Class C Misdemeanor was in play. At this point, the OPPD may have attempted to defuse a powder keg by issuing citations or summons -- which would have undermined the optics OCT was looking for. OPPD decided to play into the OCT plans and escalate the situation by executing felony arrests of an "armed and dangerous" suspect -- and it would appear they relished doing so. Then the question become, did they have to slam CJ Grisham to the ground and taze him? I am not a trained law enforcement officer, but it seems to me that the force used was excessive, executed in anger.

Grisham contacted the Chief in a phone call and asked how OPPD would respond to an open carry citizen. The Chief acknowledged that Texas is an Open Carry State and stated that is not OPPD police policy to draw down on person legally open carrying a firearm (Phone call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_X21tsxib0).

So, did OPPD cross the line? Apparently, YES. In subsequent reporting in the intervening months since this incident, Olmos Park has dismissed the charges and returned the firearms to the owners arrested during the event (https://youtu.be/-gj8eG-NX8I). According to the statement made by Grisham providing more background regarding the incident and the video evidence provided (https://youtu.be/88-lpSvAUeg?t=1152), the OPPD, under direct leadership of the Chief, unreasonably and in violation of OPPD police, "crossed the line."
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SSG Jeffrey Leake
SSG Jeffrey Leake
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LTC John Wilson Sir, I had put links to two videos of the incident, and one for the phone call between the Chief and Grisham. I have no clue what has happened to them. You bring up a lot of valid points and information and I appreciate it. I've learned a lot in the two years since this was posted.
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SSG Hank Ortega
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The issue of "Legal" open carry is based on the law in Texas: One can carry openly only IF he also has a concealed carry license. In order for the OP to state that the person arrested was "Legally" carrying openly, he would have to confirm that the person arrested actually had a CCW. Texas is not a "Constitutional Carry" state (like Arizona, for instance). This subject is covered in CCW classes in Texas.
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SSG Jeffrey Leake
SSG Jeffrey Leake
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Thanks for that info, SSG Hank Ortega. That's one of the things I was wondering about. Didn't know that you have to have a CCW to open carry there.
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