Posted on Nov 19, 2015
I have heard the USAF is starting to have retention issues. Is this just an "urban legend" floating around, or is there some truth to this?
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Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 29
The AF pushed to many people out when they did the down sizing a few years ago especially on the aircraft maintanance side. The 62nd at Luke is mostly civilians because they can't get the numbers. other small issues that are adding up is lack of training, workload, and increasig shorti missions. Flight line workes are making it happen and really thinking hard about staying in. You can only push so much to keep the jets flying before the workers break.
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MSgt Walter Thomason
This was done previously in the late 80's early 90's. I was stationed at Osan AB and had some SSgt cross-trainee trying to pretend he knew what he was doing with the weather radar. Screwed it up so bad, I had to wait until they were gone and put in two days of work to get it back running T.O. specs. After I was told to either cross-train or I'd be cross-trained or booted, I hear there were too many let out.
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Anyone who thinks that the lack of direction and some of the head-scratching activities that we've been involved in lately doesn't trickle down to the ranks is deluding themselves.
Lack of training dollars is a real threat to retention.
Lack of training dollars is a real threat to retention.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
The only thing I'm never understood about retention boards is this, last year they began to allow people to separate or face the boards because they lacked Manning in specific career fields now to me the easiest way to fill those slots would not to of been to allow people to separate but to offer them the chance to cross train into those career fields which would allow you to retain the leadership you already have just doing a different job, not to mention I would think retraining someone is more cost effective then separating or having to train up someone new.
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MSgt Gloria Vance
While that sounds like a good idea. That was already tried a few years back and it but the AF in the butt and caused all kinds of problems. Example: You have a TSgt in an overfilled AFSC. They cross train into a medical field. Based on their rank they should be in a supervisory position but as a cross trainee they don't have the practical skill needed for that position. So you end up with a disillusioned NCO who hopefully won't be down graded on their performance report and you have disillusioned troops who have a hard time following an NCO who is lacking in practical knowledge. Either way both lose.
What is the answer? Higher bonuses for those fields experiencing shortages (either by career field or position). $$ always helps with retention.
What is the answer? Higher bonuses for those fields experiencing shortages (either by career field or position). $$ always helps with retention.
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MSgt Walter Thomason
I can't advise young men to join the military today because it is in so much of a mess. What I am seeing now is worse than the Carter years. Even more frightening is that the world is a whole lot more dangerous now than it was then.
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There is quite a bit of truth to this. From personal experience and hearing stories from friends still enlisted, the flight line side of things is looking very grim. With the large amount of people given the boot during the force shaping stuff and the lack of new blood to fill the gaps, the AMUs are having a hard time keeping up with the ever increasing flight tempo.
From my personal experience: I was one of 3 people who were able to troubleshoot problems with specific systems in the air frame the unit had. The level of work I was doing was that of a SSgt, and I was a SrA. This might seem like a way to get a lot of recognition and awards during my 3 years at this base. Unfortunately the 12-14 hour shifts, 7 days a week for months at a time at home station were never thanked besides a hearty pat on the back. This was a major factor to me getting burnt out, wore out and fed up. I was going above and beyond my pay grade for years but people who did about half the work I was doing got award after award because they had the time to do volunteer work, or take classes during their off time.
I was also very vocal about only having a couple of people able to do the work I was doing and repeatedly asked for people to train. The higher ups would always say that they would think about it or they couldn't afford to move people to the shift I was working.
I never received the pleasure of going TDY or even deploying. I was always left behind to work on hard broke jets, or train new people to the unit on how to do simple jobs properly. A lot of the time I was working the same, if not more, hours as the deployed folks with less days off. They might as well used the area around me as target practice and gave me deployment pay.
Doing more work than most of the people in my unit, getting less recognition, besides getting told "Good job" by the production staff because they got to meet their numbers, is a quick way to show someone they aren't appreciated, and an even faster way to make sure they don't stay around.
From what I hear the situation hasn't gotten any better at other bases. In fact in some places it's gotten worse.
From my personal experience: I was one of 3 people who were able to troubleshoot problems with specific systems in the air frame the unit had. The level of work I was doing was that of a SSgt, and I was a SrA. This might seem like a way to get a lot of recognition and awards during my 3 years at this base. Unfortunately the 12-14 hour shifts, 7 days a week for months at a time at home station were never thanked besides a hearty pat on the back. This was a major factor to me getting burnt out, wore out and fed up. I was going above and beyond my pay grade for years but people who did about half the work I was doing got award after award because they had the time to do volunteer work, or take classes during their off time.
I was also very vocal about only having a couple of people able to do the work I was doing and repeatedly asked for people to train. The higher ups would always say that they would think about it or they couldn't afford to move people to the shift I was working.
I never received the pleasure of going TDY or even deploying. I was always left behind to work on hard broke jets, or train new people to the unit on how to do simple jobs properly. A lot of the time I was working the same, if not more, hours as the deployed folks with less days off. They might as well used the area around me as target practice and gave me deployment pay.
Doing more work than most of the people in my unit, getting less recognition, besides getting told "Good job" by the production staff because they got to meet their numbers, is a quick way to show someone they aren't appreciated, and an even faster way to make sure they don't stay around.
From what I hear the situation hasn't gotten any better at other bases. In fact in some places it's gotten worse.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
MSgt Lambert Larson - The good Senior NCOs that are constantly on the prowl to know what is happening do as you mentioned. The remainder focus on other 'important' matters!
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SSgt (Join to see)
This hits right on the nail of what I've dealt with and what I see countless of others dealing with.
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MSgt Walter Thomason
SrA Shipley. You had it easy. As a SSgt, I was the only qualified 1C6 in a 5 man shop. I had a A1C trainee straight from tech school, standby for 8 weeks straight and since I stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, living 25 miles from the base with no phone and outside of radio range, I was forced at one point to sleep in the supply room because the CoM became concerned that I had missed maintenance calls over night (I would stay within radio range of the base until I couldn't stay up any longer). Unfortunately, there was no room in billeting so I did what I had too. At Osan we got down to two of 5. That was good times there. At Upper Heyford, the up time rate of my equipment increased. At Osan, I received a letter of Commendation from the weather Commander for the status of his equipment improving. I even received a mention in the PACAF Commander communications letter for troubleshooting a satellite receiver called a polarimeter (I think) without a tech order or prior training. I got a weak 5 on that EPR. Combat Comm, there were times I'd get a call before I got back into garrison telling me not to unpack my bags because I was going right back out. At the time there were only two NCO's in the office, I wasn't the NCOIC so guess who was the team chief on taskings.
Burnt out yes. My reward was that I knew I made things better. Please understand that I am not speaking down to you because the situation isn't your fault. Doing more with less isn't new and will never be old because civilians rule our domain and cannot possibly see and often not care for what we do to carry out the mission. I got through by doing things my way, when possible, implementing changes that I thought would improve the job. Yes, there were times I had to answer for some of the things that I did but at least I had the results that spoke for itself. Lets see, I should have faced Courts Martial at least once, reprimand twice. But it was my way of getting through it. I also don't recommend that course of action because it was not necessarily career enhancing (the weak EPR at Osan for instance). I remember falling asleep one morning in the middle of the Air Field after completing a PM on a RSO wind sensor. F-111 taking off and landing for what had to of been 2-3 hours. That could have been a problem but that was just the way it was then. Hopefully our next President will be one that believes in a strong military and understand the threat we are under and build the military back up as it should be. I'm just sorry to hear that what appears to have been a promising career was cut short. I imagine the SNCO's and Officers are looking out for their own more than looking at the people that make them look good. Best wishes to you.
Burnt out yes. My reward was that I knew I made things better. Please understand that I am not speaking down to you because the situation isn't your fault. Doing more with less isn't new and will never be old because civilians rule our domain and cannot possibly see and often not care for what we do to carry out the mission. I got through by doing things my way, when possible, implementing changes that I thought would improve the job. Yes, there were times I had to answer for some of the things that I did but at least I had the results that spoke for itself. Lets see, I should have faced Courts Martial at least once, reprimand twice. But it was my way of getting through it. I also don't recommend that course of action because it was not necessarily career enhancing (the weak EPR at Osan for instance). I remember falling asleep one morning in the middle of the Air Field after completing a PM on a RSO wind sensor. F-111 taking off and landing for what had to of been 2-3 hours. That could have been a problem but that was just the way it was then. Hopefully our next President will be one that believes in a strong military and understand the threat we are under and build the military back up as it should be. I'm just sorry to hear that what appears to have been a promising career was cut short. I imagine the SNCO's and Officers are looking out for their own more than looking at the people that make them look good. Best wishes to you.
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With all of the unnecessary changes being made to not only the Air Force, but also the other branches, it is no wonder people are fleeing military service these days. now with talk of totally revamping the retirement program, why would anyone want to join up and become a lifer? I spent 26 years in the Air Force and have seen my share of changes, but what is going on now makes me glad I hung up the uniform. My advice to kids these days is to join, by all means a great experience, find a job that can be used on the outside, go to school and have the military pay for it, take your degree, VA benefits, practical experience, salute smartly and get out to go join the private sector and make real money, with a real pension, and live happily ever after.
Tony Y. MSgt USAF, (RET)
Tony Y. MSgt USAF, (RET)
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MSgt Wayne Morris
Good advice with the exception of the pension as many companies today offer no pension but only a 401K. I feel lucky I got under the radar and will have one but there are not that man in my company in the same boat.
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Depends on the AFSC...but DirtBoyz are in no way having issues! We exceeded our retention goals in every zone....one of them by 135%!
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SMSgt (Join to see)
As far as Aircraft Maintenance we did not exceed because of the down sizing but also the down sizing affected the mid-level leaders. Staffs and Techs were hit hard, which lead to a large amount of SRA thrown into a leadership role without experience. Part of the issue is leadership does not take the time to train personnel as leaders because the production effort and the high tempo of mobility "do more with less" is killing the morale. Also as a recently retired SMS the importance of being physically fit is more important than learning your AFSC.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
Kind of surprises me every time someone in a leadership role, blames leadership for not taking the time to train personnel. I do agree though that the more with less line...which I have heard for 18 years now...continues to hurt morale but again, I contribute it to people in our roles to stem that morale reduction. Congrats on the retirement.
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SSgt Kevin Moynahan
I was on an individual jet tasking to Balad in 07 and was housed with the dirt boys out of pope for a few months. Solid group of dudes for sure!
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I've been in 5 1/2 years and this is what I've seen. I've been told multiple times that we aren't going to pay you for budget reasons, education benefits are being suspended for budget reasons. I've worked in terrible conditions, for "leadership" that didn't care and didn't take care of its people. I've seen good, hard workers forced out of the military with little time left till retirement. The Chief of Staff just stated that we as service members no longer have the privacy when it comes to personal text messages. I could go on. I'm 2 years from completing my first contract, will I reenlist? I love my job, but if I can complete my degree before this contract, and depending what kind of retirement package the military is offering will sway my decision I'll more then likely get out.
Most of my friends, are looking at the outside as well. To many years of working 14 hour days, in crappy weather, to be told your check may not be there, for leadership that doesn't give a rats behind about you. Means that the retention rate will suffer.
Most of my friends, are looking at the outside as well. To many years of working 14 hour days, in crappy weather, to be told your check may not be there, for leadership that doesn't give a rats behind about you. Means that the retention rate will suffer.
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Working for a major defense contractor now I talk to a lot of new hires who bailed prior to retirement and the main reason I hear is career uncertainty, the continual talk of reducing benefits. long work hours and lack of recognition for going the extra mile(s). It also appears the political brown noses have not been impacted by the cut backs.
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MSgt Donald G.
Yep, agree. Can't tell you how many Yes-men/-women are promoted; however, they're the exact people who are running around organizing events instead of doing their job. All this, while others are helping to carry the load. They're allowed additional time out of work to attend courses, take classes, etc., then get nominated for awards because they complete this, organized that, etc. Basically, teachers pets get the goods and the hard-workers get the shaft. Additionally, many leaders are too concerned with their own promotion or covering their 4$$ instead of caring for their people.
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I just think folks are getting burned out. 1:1 deployment dwell is hard to maintain indefinitely. When the AF draws down on people, but doesn't decrease airplanes or sorties, somethings gotta give. We literally cannot do more with less anymore. We're at the minimums to keep the planes in the air. That goes for both mx and ops. That's why I punched after 10 1/2 years with a line number for E6. I did my time, time to have a real life for a bit
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All it would take is a "Green to Blue" program with the Army. Allow Soldiers who wish to switch branches the opportunity, and I guarantee every AFSC will soon be at max capacity.
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The Air Force has opened up accessions for prior service Airmen again. The last time we did that was in 99 right after we let too many Airmen go and couldn't meet end strength numbers. I don't know if it is as much a retention issue as it is an issue with the number of people we kicked out on the premise that we were going to get rid of certain weapon systems. As we all know those weapon systems didn't go away but the people were already gone.
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Sgt Paul Marshall
The air force has like many politicians, done some very questionable things especially since I got out. The changing of the way the rank looks and the uniforms and so on.
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MSgt Donald G.
I've seen great Airmen, NCOs and several Officers booted for PT issues when they were the best in the unit in work performance and knowledge. Several were somewhat legitimate PT shunners; however, most were dealing with physical ailments that prevented some aspects of the PT test. Thus, unless your a little person (male of female) and could only perform, say - the waist tape, then it could end up as a failure, because you couldn't perform the physical aspects at the time. Other I've seen could run miles but not fast enough, so endurance wasn't the issue but speed was, and most weren't in physically demanding positions (i.e. they weren't PJs or CCTs, etc.)
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