Posted on Sep 8, 2015
I need opinions from veterans outside of our race team.
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Would you buy this shirt? Price is $18 plus shipping and tax. It takes $8 just for us to get the shirts. The profit is then invested in our non-profit veteran racing team, AVR Cares packages, and vet training programs. All opinions appreciated.
Posted in these groups: 
Racing
Graphic Design
Racing Graphic Design
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 18
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No i wouldent, I do not wear shirts with women on them because they dont honor my wife.
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I wouldn't. Why have American Veterans represented by what looks like Charlie's Angels. I personally don't like flags in black and on the back of a shirt. I think I would buy one if it was on the front and the figures looked more like Soldiers or Vets. Though even that is technically a violation of the flag code. Often ignored, I have worn those July 4th shirts with the flags that Old Navy makes.
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PO3 Amanda Doughty
It's still patriotic and has the three main women of the team but should appeal to the NASCAR demographic that we're selling to. Our first shirt design only appealed to racing veterans and the interest was way to low.
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SFC Joseph Weber
So you are sexualizing the female members of your team. Makes me less likely to buy one. If your goal was to make a t-shirt and lots of money I am sure you will be successful.
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This is our logo in full color. This is what is pictured on the front of the shirt. Thanks for looking.
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LTC (Join to see)
I like the logo - but I'm with the majority here in regards to the three women on the back and the provocative manner they are being displayed. Like SFC Joseph Weber said - first thing that came to my mind was "Charlies Angels" - which I doubt is what you're going for.
Why not use silhouettes of women in combat gear?
Why not use silhouettes of women in combat gear?
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It isn't supposed to represent all veterans. It represents the women on the team with our team logo on the front. It is to be sold at racing events so the target audience isn't primarily veterans but those of the nascar demographic. We were trying to go with a design that appealed to everyone, not just veterans or racers. Our first shirt design was obviously veteran designed with the "Honor First, Racing Second" on it. It didn't appeal to a large enough audience and so sales were limited due to such a small group of people who identify with both veterans and racing. This shirt is meant to appeal to the masses. So yes the females on the back aren't great but it's what an average person would think is cool. The girls are not meant to represent all veterans or even all female veterans, they stand for the three main women on the team. Also the shirt will be in color on subsequent printings. Problem being is it takes $13 to make a three color hand printed shirt rather than the $8 for the black ink version.
Thank you for all your input. I should have clarified the figures and the target audience in the original post.
Thank you for all your input. I should have clarified the figures and the target audience in the original post.
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SFC Joseph Weber
Then you should be successful. Since Veterans are the minority, losing their sales will not hurt you. I don't like that you had to represent the female veterans in a sexual way.
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SSG Buddy Kemper
Yeah...i get it now. If it's an all female team it makes sense. It is a great logo, tho. That full color pic is awesome!!!
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SSG Richard Reilly
You can do wonders with one color or two and even three however you need to know what you message is for the shirt and maybe work the logo more. From what I gather you are three female veteran's that race cars and are part of a team. You want people to buy your shirt...well you demographic is probably more women so making this a little more feminine is an idea. Because most guys like women but probably support guys drivers more. If you make the shirt cool and appealing to a general audience then you can probably sell more. But that is hard as a promotion shirt for you chicks...(chicks is meant in a respectful manner.)
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No - I don't think what appears to be 3 females with weapons imposed over a black/white American flag would represent ALL America's Veterans.
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PO3 Amanda Doughty
It isn't supposed to represent all veterans. It represents the women on the team with our team logo on the front. It is to be sold at racing events so the target audience isn't primarily veterans but those of the nascar demographic. We were trying to go with a design that appealed to everyone, not just veterans or racers.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
The "logo" on the front says "America's Veterans" - no? I'm not sure how anyone looking at the shirt (regardless who is wearing it) would not see the logo and the back as combined? So my question to the person wearing the shirt might in fact be, Why does the front logo say "America's Veterans" and the back have three females with weapons imposed on a b/w flag?
Now - if you have a team that is called "AVR or "America's Veterans Racing" (assumed) and this is a trademark name, then that's different - and if the logo is trademarked for your team - then I agree - it would be a shirt that represents the AVR team - in which case I still think the three females with weapons imposed over the flag is not the best representation of your entity. I think if you were to drop the 3 females and leave simply the flag, the response would be YES in most cases as this just shows support for America - period.
Now - if you have a team that is called "AVR or "America's Veterans Racing" (assumed) and this is a trademark name, then that's different - and if the logo is trademarked for your team - then I agree - it would be a shirt that represents the AVR team - in which case I still think the three females with weapons imposed over the flag is not the best representation of your entity. I think if you were to drop the 3 females and leave simply the flag, the response would be YES in most cases as this just shows support for America - period.
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PO3 Amanda Doughty
Thank you for your response. The logo is trademarked. We have a female team currently and a male team in the works. We we're trying to appeal to the type of people who attend the racing events and quite frankly they like this sort of stuff. If we only aim at appealing to veterans or racers we won't get our sales in order to fund the organization. We tried that the first go around and is did not work. Again thanks for your input.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
I think one of the problems with selling logoed t-shirts is the logo MUST be attributed to something GREAT at the event - if it's a representation of a team (and there are presumed to be lots of teams") then, unless you WIN, or somehow make huge impression, your shirts are not going to sell well. If you are trying to make $$ selling t-shirts, why not just design a shirt that you can sell to anyone? A simple "American" shirt would work as Nascar and Americans go together very well - and you could sell it everywhere - including online?
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I personally don't like how the women are portrayed on the back of the t-shirt. So I'll pass on buying one.
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PO3 Amanda Doughty I really like the logo on the front and I share the opinion that many other folks have shared about the back. I have a wife and two daughters and don't want to reinforce the gender contextualization. (see I went all fancy on the lawyer speak...) I would go with just the American flag and then sell the same shirt for the men and women's teams.
If you plan to do the less 'contextualized' design, I am willing to purchase one.
If you plan to do the less 'contextualized' design, I am willing to purchase one.
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CW3 (Join to see)
If you want to sell a shirt to dumb rednecks, then sell a shirt to dumb rednecks. You have 'veteran racing' on the front, which has nothing to do with what the back of the shirt represents.
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CW3 (Join to see)
SGT Jerrold Pesz - Cpl Anthony Pearson - I never said that all rednecks are dumb, I was specifically singling out dumb rednecks, hence dumb rednecks. I've been to enough backwoods dirt tracks in my life to get the full experience. If you're offended, then you're probably in the market for one of these shirts.
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You, more than most of us, know your target audience/market. Some of us may have a hard time 'feeling' it, because it isn't our world (racing).
I'm a graphic artist, too. I have been creating military inspired gear for over 15 years, and designing stuff for well over 25 years.
What some may not realize is that adding colors to your design also increases setup costs and overall cost per shirt. So a 1-color design is often what most people do if they are looking to create a low-cost fund-raising type of design.
I love the flag, and love my shirts that portray our flag on the front, back, sleeves, etc. Sounds like the Charlie's Angels silhouettes aren't a hit here. I use http://www.istockphoto.com for vector art, they have a huge selection of military silhouettes. If you cannot take your own photos of your the girls on the team, then make silhouettes out of them, perhaps buying a vector of female military members is the way to go.
Final thoughts... thick skin. It is a double edged sword opening yourself up to feedback from people, especially when it is your creativity being shared. People slamming your work hurts. So take their comments with a grain of salt, step back, and see if you agree with the things they are pointing out. If you do NOT agree, then do your own thing.
Good work, my friend.
I'm a graphic artist, too. I have been creating military inspired gear for over 15 years, and designing stuff for well over 25 years.
What some may not realize is that adding colors to your design also increases setup costs and overall cost per shirt. So a 1-color design is often what most people do if they are looking to create a low-cost fund-raising type of design.
I love the flag, and love my shirts that portray our flag on the front, back, sleeves, etc. Sounds like the Charlie's Angels silhouettes aren't a hit here. I use http://www.istockphoto.com for vector art, they have a huge selection of military silhouettes. If you cannot take your own photos of your the girls on the team, then make silhouettes out of them, perhaps buying a vector of female military members is the way to go.
Final thoughts... thick skin. It is a double edged sword opening yourself up to feedback from people, especially when it is your creativity being shared. People slamming your work hurts. So take their comments with a grain of salt, step back, and see if you agree with the things they are pointing out. If you do NOT agree, then do your own thing.
Good work, my friend.
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SSG Richard Reilly
I would make your own vector art. 99designs can help with a better design too...would cost though.
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