Posted on May 12, 2019
1SG Glen Pickard
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Served as 1SG 8 yrs. ID reflects rank as MSG am I allowed to wear 1SG on retired uniform?
Posted in these groups: Afp getty 511269685 Dress UniformRank Rank
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SSG Dale London
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Edited >1 y ago
Hmmm... unless I mis-remember, MSG is a rank while 1SG is a command position that can be held by anyone from E-6 to E-9 under the one up and two down rule. That being said, who's gonna tell you "no?" Any smart-ar$3 stupid enough to get in the face of a First Shirt better hope Top's having a good day. It's kind of like whether an E-9 wears SGM or CSM stripes, no?
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MSG Norm Nunnally
MSG Norm Nunnally
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Do not confuse the position of field first with the actual rank of 1SG. There is no equitable explanation that any field first could offer that would qualify them to wear the 1SG stripes.
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SSG Dale London
SSG Dale London
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MSG Norm Nunnally - Thanks for the reply.
I don't think I was confusing the two. I have always understood the "rank" of First Sergeant to actually be an appointed position. I know that master sergeants are laterally appointed to first sergeant upon selection by the senior leadership at Department of the Army, and that qualified sergeants first class are promoted, depending on available billets and opportunities. A promotable sergeant first class or a master sergeant may be selected for promotion to or appointment as a first sergeant and may assume the duty. The distinction is that, upon reassignment to a non–first sergeant billet, the soldier reverts to his or her original rank of master sergeant, unless promoted to the E-9 rank of SGM or CSM. This in effect means that 1SG isn't so much a rank as a position. As I said before, it is like the difference between a SGM and a CSM.
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LTC Kevin B.
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Pulled directly from AR 670-1:

"Personnel will wear the grade as shown on the retired grade of rank line on their retirement order."

If your retirement orders say MSG or E-8/MSG, then I'd wear MSG. If they say 1SG or E-8/1SG, I'd wear 1SG. If they just say E-8, then the regulation is ambiguous. In that case, it sounds like you can use your discretion.
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1LT Infantry Officer
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1SG Glen Pickard if you earned the rank (which would mean you know how to act in uniform) I say go for it. Nobody will question it and there is no law broken. Cheers
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MSG Norm Nunnally
MSG Norm Nunnally
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This statement from a 2LT is exactly what I am referring to in my statement to PFC Jeffrey Herrington. There is more to any rank, either enlisted or officer, than acting out ones opinion of "how to act" in uniform. Case in point, as a long distance Patrol leader I was once overridden by a band new butter bar that insisted on joining my patrol. He had very little actual field experience but man did he look good with his polished bar. This happened to be an infiltration patrol executed early in the morning. My team had worked together for over 18months and everyone knew night discipline, light discipline, patrol SOP and Protocols; Said butter bar decided to change to order of march without consulting me and as we traversed at military crest up a moderate sloped ravine I noticed a lit cigarette in the file. I dropped to the side and knelt down, as the offending beacon passed he suddenly found himself on his ass with a sore jaw. All of this had occurred without a sound until he began yelling that he was going to have me courts martialed for striking a superior officer. The patrol had to be aborted and as we re-infiltrated into our line he was still verbally threatening me with actions. When he did attempt to carry out his threat and reported to the CO things did not go as he expected. He was informed that while on patrol he was actually under the command and control of the patrol leader up to the point that any particular specialty he possessed was mission essential was needed. Since we had returned at approximately 0445 he was surprised to find that he had been transferred to another company in another Battalion with the concurrence of my Battalion Commander at the recommendation of my CO.
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1LT Infantry Officer
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MSG Norm Nunnally That's quite the anecdote. I'm sorry you had to deal with a cocky new LT like that, but I'm glad you did as you were supposed to and looked out for your Soldiers and rectified the situation. I hope that he was able to learn from it and become a better Officer from then on. Sometimes one has to learn the hard way.

I meant no negativity in my comment with regards to "knowing how to act" in uniform. What I was trying to express was: on a retired uniform, nobody will question the rank. If it's 1SG or MSG, nobody will question it. Unless, say, that retired SM is acting out of line, which nobody would anticipate anyway.
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