Posted on Feb 16, 2016
If you found out your Leader or Immediate Supervisor was doing something against the law, like fraud, what would you do?
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RP Members this is one of those questions that got lost back in 2016 that is still a great question.
What would you do about this situation? Would you turn them in or comfront them first?
Would you have rights if you were a "whistleblower" against your immeidate supervisor or leader?
How many have been faced with this situation and can you share your story with the rest of the RP Group (no names please)?
What would you do about this situation? Would you turn them in or comfront them first?
Would you have rights if you were a "whistleblower" against your immeidate supervisor or leader?
How many have been faced with this situation and can you share your story with the rest of the RP Group (no names please)?
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 416
If (and I amplify if) that situation existed I would go to the nearest JAG office with my proof. Not rumors, not scuttlebutt, not E-club stories. Physical proof as in what you would need to defend yourself in court.
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As a retired CID Agent, I loved fraud cases. Interestingly enough most cases came from senior officers O-6. The Captains were too busy surviving command, the Majors were just glad not to be Captains anymore, the LTC’s we’re dealing with Battalion Command which left the Colonels. Who’s gonna check the O-6? Most Colonels have lots of autonomy with minimal oversight. I remember a Colonel committing fraud with his leave and TDY while at Ft. Benning sometime ago. It took a LONG time to nail him because of the grip he had on his staff. It was a SFC with guts and nothing to lose to finally catch him. SJA and the CG has a field day with that “former” Colonel.
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I have read a few of the comments but not all. Two suggestions which can keep you off the mark for reprisals or otherwise affect your military career. One is to call the DOD Fraud Hotline. The hotline is headed up by a female retired CID Agent (a retired SGM) who I have known since she was a SGT and I was her detachment sergeant. They will route the lead to the correct investigative agency (CID, NCIS or AFOSI). That parent agency routes it to the geographical office to initiate the investigation. The investigating agency also has an obligation to keep the DODIG, who is the parent agency for the fraud hotline.
For the more local fraud, contact the local investigating agency (CID, NCIS or AFOSI). Ask to speak with the fraud team chief. Make an appointment to meet him/her away from the office, installation. Asked to be carried as a confidential source. I worked 17 years of fraud and attended the courses to make me very effective (DOD Property Disposal Operations Course, Basic Contracting Officer’s Course and the Army Club Management Course. Also, my youngest confidential source was 5 years old. The training and experience proved me well as an insurance fraud investigator after military retirement.
For the more local fraud, contact the local investigating agency (CID, NCIS or AFOSI). Ask to speak with the fraud team chief. Make an appointment to meet him/her away from the office, installation. Asked to be carried as a confidential source. I worked 17 years of fraud and attended the courses to make me very effective (DOD Property Disposal Operations Course, Basic Contracting Officer’s Course and the Army Club Management Course. Also, my youngest confidential source was 5 years old. The training and experience proved me well as an insurance fraud investigator after military retirement.
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Th first step is to report your suspicion to a Judge Advocate for advice. If you suspect unusual backlash in your service report it to a Judge Advocate in a different service or a civilian attorney if you can afford one. Another option that might work with a politically charged problem would be to report it to your Congressman and/or Senator. If the politics is right you might even report it directly to the President like was done in the Green Beret murder case under President Nixon.
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It's what I did that nearly got me killed. After my report to the NIS at Portsmouth VA shipyard while we were in drydock.
On 6 separate occasions, 6 different men stopped me in the passageway. "F.U. Thomas. We're going to kill you and throw you over the side."
The last one I responded, Go ahead. Give it your best shot. If it's not my time to go, there's nothing you can do about it."
Well we were in port and out of the Yards. They tried me up in my bunk. Beat me black and blue and left me for dead.
The following morning, outside the door I heard them talking about it and laughing.
Walking in I said, "Excuse me. Good morning. Good morning. God bless you. I really need a cup of coffee."
One choked and spit out his coffee on another. One dropped his cup. A third poured his coffee down his shirt.
Sweetener and creamer, coffee in my cup. Turning only to find the Chief. They all left.
I asked him, "Is muster over already?"
He just told me to get to work.
They never threatened or bothered me again. They found out because the Chief was in on it.
It was serious enough that I thought that it warranted investigation. Would I do that again?
I'm sorry that I took a beating. Was it necessary for me to speak up? I think so because nobody else would.
A little anxiety about MRI machines and closed doors in small rooms, but I've coped.
I guess the realization hit me one day when my kids were little. I would eyeball everyone within a certain distance from my family and always face the entrance to the restaurant. After that time I knew that I was hyper vigilant.
It didn't hurt to be careful about the people I protect.
On 6 separate occasions, 6 different men stopped me in the passageway. "F.U. Thomas. We're going to kill you and throw you over the side."
The last one I responded, Go ahead. Give it your best shot. If it's not my time to go, there's nothing you can do about it."
Well we were in port and out of the Yards. They tried me up in my bunk. Beat me black and blue and left me for dead.
The following morning, outside the door I heard them talking about it and laughing.
Walking in I said, "Excuse me. Good morning. Good morning. God bless you. I really need a cup of coffee."
One choked and spit out his coffee on another. One dropped his cup. A third poured his coffee down his shirt.
Sweetener and creamer, coffee in my cup. Turning only to find the Chief. They all left.
I asked him, "Is muster over already?"
He just told me to get to work.
They never threatened or bothered me again. They found out because the Chief was in on it.
It was serious enough that I thought that it warranted investigation. Would I do that again?
I'm sorry that I took a beating. Was it necessary for me to speak up? I think so because nobody else would.
A little anxiety about MRI machines and closed doors in small rooms, but I've coped.
I guess the realization hit me one day when my kids were little. I would eyeball everyone within a certain distance from my family and always face the entrance to the restaurant. After that time I knew that I was hyper vigilant.
It didn't hurt to be careful about the people I protect.
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CPO Jack De Merit 1 m
If he or she is doing something Illegal, I would turn them in immediately. Being an officer does not make them immune to the laws of this country. Confronting them wo…[See More]
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If he or she is doing something Illegal, I would turn them in immediately. Being an officer does not make them immune to the laws of this country. Confronting them wo…[See More]
Edit
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According to the rules and regulations, you are just as guilty for not reporting the incident as the individual committing the act. I have had to do things like this, it's not pleasant but it is required. Individuals like that hurt everyone of us.
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I've actually had to deal with this. Not in the military thankfully but in my civilian job beforehand. My boss that was a wonderfully nice guy, but he was too nice. He never wanted to get into confrontation with anyone so he'd let things slide.
Frequently the store's safe, which was counted every manager shift change (so every 6 hours), was missing money. It was never anything huge, $10 here, $15 there, etc. My boss rather than trying to crack down on the cashiers and managers who were either stealing money or doing their job poorly he would "make up money". To make up money he'd sell a product to the customer but never ring the item up in the system. Or ring it up as damaged to cancel out the transaction later.
All of the additional managers were asked to certify that the safe wasn't short money and instead make the money up.
I always had a problem with this. I'd confronted my boss multiple times that I was uncomfortable saying money was there when it wasn't and didn't like making money up because it was stealing from the store.
I eventually called our HR team and reported it. They fired him but I was on the shit list. A new manager came in and although no one else in the store knew it was me that new manager did and she made sure I was properly punished for it.
Write ups galore (I had worked 4 years and never received a write up until this manager), hours cut in half. All my manager shifts except the shitty Friday and Saturday nights were gone, I was assigned general employee shifts after that. Finally I quit when I discovered that she was trying to frame me, and get others to corroborate her story, of me stealing 75Lbs of shredded cheese. Yea the guy that reported the previous boss for theft is suddenly going to steal a small childs weight in cheese.
It was rediculous.
Frequently the store's safe, which was counted every manager shift change (so every 6 hours), was missing money. It was never anything huge, $10 here, $15 there, etc. My boss rather than trying to crack down on the cashiers and managers who were either stealing money or doing their job poorly he would "make up money". To make up money he'd sell a product to the customer but never ring the item up in the system. Or ring it up as damaged to cancel out the transaction later.
All of the additional managers were asked to certify that the safe wasn't short money and instead make the money up.
I always had a problem with this. I'd confronted my boss multiple times that I was uncomfortable saying money was there when it wasn't and didn't like making money up because it was stealing from the store.
I eventually called our HR team and reported it. They fired him but I was on the shit list. A new manager came in and although no one else in the store knew it was me that new manager did and she made sure I was properly punished for it.
Write ups galore (I had worked 4 years and never received a write up until this manager), hours cut in half. All my manager shifts except the shitty Friday and Saturday nights were gone, I was assigned general employee shifts after that. Finally I quit when I discovered that she was trying to frame me, and get others to corroborate her story, of me stealing 75Lbs of shredded cheese. Yea the guy that reported the previous boss for theft is suddenly going to steal a small childs weight in cheese.
It was rediculous.
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to me the only answer is turn their ass in. never been faced with the situation but only know that is what I would do
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As a former Military Policeman, I feel I would have a CID investigation started, especially if I had hard evidence (not just suppositions) of unlawful activity.
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