Posted on Dec 13, 2013
SGM Matthew Quick
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Uniforms
If you had a choice, which uniform pattern/style would you want to wear?<div><br></div><div><span style="color: rgb(44, 44, 44); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 24px;">This year, the Joint Staff’s top enlisted adviser, Marine Sgt. Maj. Bryan Battaglia, said the mix of uniforms makes the U.S. military look like a “Baskin-Robbins” and signaled his support for a common uniform.<br></span><br><span style="color: rgb(44, 44, 44); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 24px;">But Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos recently said preserving the Corps’ MARPAT pattern is a top priority and declared that his service will stick to it “like a hobo to a ham sandwich.”</span><br></div>
Posted in these groups: 4276e14c UniformsMaskowanie Camouflage
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SSgt George Brown
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As a civilian, I can say congress does not understand the military and because of that, they make boneheaded decisions that impact morale, tradition, and order in the military they constantly want to under fund.  It is interesting they are trying to save money on uniforms that they don't buy.  That is how ignorant they are, having never served.
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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What?
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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There was never any call to give up the old patterns or uniform cut & material but alas, no point in beating that horse some more. I say either everyone goes to multicam or marpat. Stop wasting tax payer dollars teetering the same stuff that's been tested and proven a dozen times over. One thing for sure though, get rid of the damn velcro and zippers and return to button closures for everything and sewn on patches. I'd you're actually SOF you have a demonstrated need for the velcro. Otherwise, it's pointless and a waste of money. Next, Dutch the whole cut and material I'd the Army uniforms. Either go back to the BDU/DCU design or use the Marine design. The Army killed any durability when it tried to make people more comfortable and now our uniforms rip and fall apart five feet off of the road. As one other NCO said, just use an earth tone brown (coyote, dark earth, whatever you want to call it) for all of our OCIE. Brown is a universal color worldwide and so the best base color. Paint over it and our weapons to better match locale. Problem solved, money saved.
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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Phone wasn't working so well earlier.  I'd also add that we need to ditch the stupid, useless chest pockets on our current ACU.  Either go back to the BDU pocket, or (my vote) get the big slant pockets from the Vietnam era OGAs.  Keep the calf pockets and the sleeve pockets but put buttons on them.  Our current tan boot is also a very poor uniform choice.  Who in their right mind picked a light tan shade for our suede?  Dumb.  The Marines also beat us on this - dirt brown for suede boots that are going to dirty & grimy, what a novel concept.  I have to admit that I do have a split mind on the boots because I fully agree that having to shine boots & low-quarters built discipline and responsibility.  However, the rough side out leather is more practical and brown will always trump black ina tactical environment and in the end, that is wear we do work.
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SSG Ralph Watkins
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I'm an old timer.  Went in with the permanent press fatigues & got out during the start of the ACU's.  The BDU's were supposed to be the all service uniform.  Right off the bat, the SMA back then didn't want slanted pockets even though they were quite practical so that was scrubbed.  Several changes had to made over the years to the BDU's.  I still have a set of the old Elvis collar ones.  Then in 1983 they were looking at going to a brown suede boot.  When I went to PLDC in Germany, the SF guys were wearing them & they liked them.  Again, politics interceded & the brown boot was scrubbed because they didn't look pretty.  So it seems we have come full circle over the past 30 years.  I agree, the Multicam seems like the right choice.  It should be solely designed by the requirements of field soldiers not some POG's behind a desk someplace & certainly not by Congress or DoD HQ.  It is much more cost effective to design things properly & practically.  Whenever politics gets involved, it tends to drive up costs & doesn't satisfy the needs of the troops.
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MSG Chief Intilligence Sergeant
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We (Armed Services) need to go back to the one or two camo format that worked. One uniform for wooded, forest, vegitation, etc. and one for desert environments. The same camo needs to be assigned to ALL services. The camo explosion that has seen every service with their own camo patterns is stupid and a HUGE waste a money. Heck the Multicam pattern is better at everything than the ACU, go to that for everyone. This would lower spending, and improve logistics.
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SFC Retired
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Lets go one step further and stop with this ridiculous camouflage uniform program. The old O.D. uniforms where more than adequate for over 40 years. Some military tech nerd and his associated congressman sent us down this road back in the 80s. There is no empirical data that equates wearing a camouflage field/combat uniform reduces casualties in any way on the battle field. Maybe save a few million and get us better body armor or a primary weapon that wasn't designed in the 50s. The DOD is all about making cuts, well one duty/field/combat uniform is a great start.
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CPT Owner
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I really like the multicam pattern the Army uses on deployments. 
It looks good, is functional camouflage, and provides a presentable and professional appearance. 

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MSgt Visual Information Chief
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I know the Marine that posed for the uniform configuration in the middle.
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CPT Operations Officer
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I think Multicam provides the best camouflage over a broad array of environments.
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MAJ Field Artillery Officer
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Would like to see some true leadership from our Top Brass on this issue for a "Common Uniform" collection of patterns.  I see three main issues in making this decision, effectiveness, industrial longevity, and force cohesiveness.

First, these uniforms must be effective at concealing our forces from a number of "Eyes" out there.  Effective to conceal from the naked eye, cameras, night vision, thermal, and other detectors our enemy uses.  We all know the best way to conceal from the naked eye is to disrupt our outline and to use patterns and colors found in nature.  For the tech detectors and cameras, we know digital patterns are effective.  Effectiveness should not be a factor taken lightly as well as the cost is our Soldiers lives, so it must be the best.  The US4CES family of patterns tested the best not only in the digital arena, but in all testing criteria, it excelled.

Second, industrial longevity, the new uniform must be able to be produced by many in order to supply all US Forces quickly with not only clothing, but PPE as well.  It may even drive us to paint our vehicles the same pattern.  In order to do this the DoD must select a brand new entry, one that property rights would be surrendered (NOT Crye Multicam) in order to produce quickly and low cost.

Third, Force Cohesiveness, this is one I've seen so much bickering about at Top levels and I find the situation like a bunch of fraternities battling over a college campus.  This Uniform must be a pattern no service can claim solely before. "We had it first so we're better!"  It needs to be a brand new pattern so all services can adopt and feel as one.  Rather our enemies and the local nationals scream, "That's a Soldier!" or "That's a Marine!" They should be saying, "THAT'S AN AMERICAN!"  Its ONE Flag flying over our bases there, not Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force flags.  So when I hear that the Marines will stick to MARPAT like a "Hobo on a ham sandwich," I'm disheartened to hear that we want to make each other so different and not stand as one force.  Our Dress Uniforms is where we can be socially distinct, on the battlefield, that needs to go out the window.

In conclusion, I would like to see us adopt a new, most effective, and distinguished uniform patterns to reset the dividing mindset the services have right now.  Whether thats US4CES, Brookwood, Krytpek, BDUs even.  We need to stand in the face of our enemies and let them fear "THE AMERICAN" rather than say, oh thats just a Airman (not personal), "Roll Them Over!"  At least let our enemies doubt who they are engaging first, no matter who it is.  DoD Force wide unity would be a more powerful weapon than different patterns.
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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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To save money and be effective, multicams!  After that, woodland and desert MARPAT as long as all the gear is coyote brown to work with both woodland and desert environments.  Even better would be a single MARPAT uniform that is reversable for use in both woodland and desert. 
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SSG It Specialist
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I think the MARPAT is a good example of getting it right the first time.


As far as Multicam goes last time I checked (which is too long ago to recall accurately) the US4CES traditional was out performing Multicam.



I could be mistaken of course, but I was surprised to here that US4CES got the axe.

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SFC Cyber Network Operator
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Historically we in the military have worn the same combat uniform or something very close. We let our dress uniforms be our difference. I say we go with what has worked for generations, OD Green is the answer. 
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MAJ Samuel Weber
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I would say OCP as well. The FRAC versions look dingy but the Garrison version looks great and has all the positive benefits of the current ACU (minus the poor pattern). What is so funny about the Commandants statement is that for more than 20 years we ALL wore the same uniform (BDUs), so why now are we all up in arms about being so different from our fellow services? Our Unit patches, ranks, and Name Tapes are enough to make that distinction. We have our Service Dress Uniforms to make us all feel special. I'd go with the OCP, bottom-line, it works.
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SFC Gary Fox
SFC Gary Fox
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Actually, the timeframe the services were wearing the same uniform goes back before the introduction of BDUs.  The services used to wear the same OD green fatigues.  I say go back to the OD green fatigues for garrison.
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SFC Instructor/Writer
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Sir, They are all grabage uniforms as far as utilitarian vakue and quality, whether UCP (digital) or OCP (multicam); and from the ground war-fighters percepective, they have very few positive benefits over the BDUs.  Zippers and velcro on a combat uniform are a terrible idea.  The lighter weight material is worthless and rips or falls apart within the first five minutes outside the wire, they fit like giant trash bags and look just as good and because they have so much space built in we now have more soldiers in the field with chaffing issues.  The only improvements are the shoulder and calf pockets.  With the OCP uniforms the put the buttons back on the cargo pockets and made tehm bgger again - good!  Chest pockets are still small and useless (esp if you were a small/anything), velcro wears out and is noisy, we can't fix the stupid zipper that digs into my sternum from my body armor in the field when it breaks.  These are terrible uniforms saving the multicam pattern.  If we keep that pattern (and it IS good) we ned to put it on either the BDU cut & fabric or the Marpat cut & fabric.
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SGT(P) Aircraft Powerplant Repairer
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I would like to raise this question. There are two environments in which we as Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen work. That is combat and garrison (peacetime). I for one am honestly tired of everyone wearing a series of combat uniforms in garrison that honestly have us all looking like soup sandwiches. Weather it's the multicam, MARPAT or ACU they are unprofessional looking in a shop or garrison environment. Don't misunderstand me, they work in combat very well, but that is where they need to stay. I propose returning to the solid color fatigues for all services during normal garrison or peacetime operations (a blue collar suit if you will) to maintain a professional appearance, or if you are staff (NGB, pentagon, Division HQ, etc) then wear the service dress appropriate to that office. Combat orientated uniforms, whatever they end up choosing, should be issued for training and deployment only.By doing this it will maintain service individuality and save millions of dollars on silly uniform disputes. But most importantly it will return a certain level of pride in appearance amongst all services while at home or garrison and stop all this nonsense of people walking around in a uniform that looks like they slept in it the night before. No More Soup Sandwiches!
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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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I am going to disagree with you here. The costs alone with fielding and maintaining both garrison and field uniforms could be prohibitive in a time of such strong budgetary constraints. Further, the usefullness of the uniform would be a bit questionable if you were in the motor pool or potentially conducting other training while in garrison.

 

BDU's and MARPAT's seem to show that you can have a sharp looking uniform, that if worn properly, can demonstrate the professionalism desired. I can see where the velcro serves some funciton on the ACU's, but I miss the durability of buttons. I have a few ACU's that look rough purely because the velcro is failing and I haven't taken them in to get resewn. How many times have we seen nametapes that look like bacon, or frayed and nasty velcro? The ability to keep things more pristine and maintain them easier should be a factor in design. The BDU's were great for this, and the MARPATs seem to be close to this as well.

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MSG Chief Intilligence Sergeant
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I have to disagree with you too. Two utility uniforms for Desert and wooded environments is cheaper than three uniforms. We operated this way for years wearing woodland in garrison and changing to DCU as necessary. There is no need for a single color garrison uniform, that would be a waste of money.
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SFC Motor Transport Operator
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I got no problem with the Generals idea. I think its a good pattern for all services.
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SPC Christopher Morehouse
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Isn't that what I said?
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
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Digital tiger stripe..
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CPO Greg Frazho
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Ripstop woodlands. Only problem with them is you had to iron 'em! That aside, they were comfortable, utilitarian and looked good.
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SGT Team Leader
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I miss my Deserts, former Marine, current Army NG.
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Joey Damir
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blue dress pants. tan long sleeved button down shirt with tiy. and a sweatshirt.
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