Posted on Jul 22, 2020
Im getting a chapter 9 discharge for sudc alcohol failure. (Command reffered from my last company) is this honorable or general discharge?
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My 1sg told me originally I would be getting an honorable but because I was command referred from my former company that my discharge under regs would change to a general discharge is this possible and what can I do about it?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
Your Battalion Commander makes the recommendations and then sends it up to your Brigade Commander. Your Brigade Commander will then decide if you should actually be discharged along with the characterization of service. Under AR 635-200, your discharge could be **either** (Fully) Honorable or General (note that “Under Honorable Conditions” is not the same as “Honorable”). You need to do two things **now**, first speak with legal so you can avoid getting screwed since it will be an uphill battle to upgrade from a General to a Honorable discharge. Speaking with legal is probably the most important thing that you could do right now. There are other items on your DD214 that could bite you on the ass, such as your separation code and narrative, so you want it as much of it to work in your favor as possible. The next thing that I would do is start speaking with your chain of command, humbly, because the recommendations flow up the chain, and in reality are pretty much “rubber stamped” at the top. Do any of the “higher-ups” have an “open door policy?” If so, use it, and do what you need to now, otherwise it could take years before you would get to go before an Army Discharge Review Board (DRB), and even then winning will be a long shot when drugs and/or alcohol are mixed into the equation. You could probably put in a “respectful request” to speak with leaders up the chain as well, and the number one piece of advice that I think anyone could give you (RP Community, please chime in if you have other ideas) is to take ownership of your actions, again as humble and apologetic as needed since this outcome will have an affect on the rest of your life.
By the way, how long do you have in and how are your performance evals? These two items are very heavily taken into account with an administrative separation. If you’ve completed “most of your enlistment” and/or were considered an “outstanding soldier” on paper, they are less likely to go the general discharge route. Every command is different, but I’ve seen these things help a lot of folks out before.
Here’s something that will break it down for you from the administrative side:
https://home.army.mil/monterey/application/files/3715/4955/1549/chapter_9_info_paper.pdf
Feel free to ask any questions, that my friend, is what we’re here for.
Best of luck!
Jay
By the way, how long do you have in and how are your performance evals? These two items are very heavily taken into account with an administrative separation. If you’ve completed “most of your enlistment” and/or were considered an “outstanding soldier” on paper, they are less likely to go the general discharge route. Every command is different, but I’ve seen these things help a lot of folks out before.
Here’s something that will break it down for you from the administrative side:
https://home.army.mil/monterey/application/files/3715/4955/1549/chapter_9_info_paper.pdf
Feel free to ask any questions, that my friend, is what we’re here for.
Best of luck!
Jay
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In the very rarest of occurrences does the Army Discharge Review board grant a correction or an upgrade. I know because I was one of the very FEW people that had a corrected discharge in 2005.
Do what PO3 Jay Rose suggested.
The ABCMR is backlogged. It takes at least couple of tries before they actually follow regulations on how to answer you. I waited 3 years the last time but I won my case.
Speak with JAG and know who the separation authority is. Sometimes COMMANDERS cut corners and don't follow AR. They have to afford you some rights.
Let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of assistance after your discharge.
Do what PO3 Jay Rose suggested.
The ABCMR is backlogged. It takes at least couple of tries before they actually follow regulations on how to answer you. I waited 3 years the last time but I won my case.
Speak with JAG and know who the separation authority is. Sometimes COMMANDERS cut corners and don't follow AR. They have to afford you some rights.
Let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of assistance after your discharge.
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PO3 Jay Rose
Excellent advice, Christina Thundathil, as I too went that direction with a Navy Discharge Review Board (NDRB) getting in literally just before the fifteen year period would have been exhausted. It’s been a while, but it was easily 18+ months before my request was granted for an in-person board in Washington DC. They gave me about two or three months notice to appear before the board. The first thing I did was to go online and read as many board summaries that I could over the previous three years or so. That gave me a huge edge as I read first hand accounts regarding what to say, and more importantly what **not** to say. I realized that probably less than 10% of the cases are in favor of the service member, so I knew that it would be an uphill battle from the start, but I nevertheless represented myself. I guess in retrospect it was an odd combination of hubris and confidence. I **did** win, but as you know, they decide on your case **after** you give sworn and recorded testimony. I then had a very anxious two months waiting for my summary to arrive in the mail. The best advice that I could give anyone going for a DRB is to be mentally prepared, they really do their homework on you, and they will be asking many tough questions. You have to just view it as them doing their job, it’s not personal, and I’m certain having a calm, professional, and patient demeanor helped a lot. I won, but with a slim 3 in favor (2 not in favor) vote. All said, I, like you were one of the lucky ones, but I’m certain that you busted your ass preparing like I did as it will make or break your case!
The reason that I’m commenting with such detail PV2 Austin Lohmann is because we want you to be successful, and by stressing the hardships, perhaps we could light a fire under your ass to get you moving this along the right way now, saving you much time and headache in the future. Christina Thundathil is 100% right about them cutting corners, to them it’s just more paperwork passing over their desk to sign off on. Period. Nobody is going to help you unless you ask for it, and legal will be the best resource possible since they will look up regs that none of us even knew existed and present those to your chain of command. If your chain of command thinks legal is going to make it harder on them than a simple “rubber stamp,” they will likely make the necessary tweaks to your DD214 to out process you with minimal headache on their part. As long as they don’t have any grudges against you, I don’t see why they won’t try to make your characterization of service more beneficial, especially if you and legal are asking respectfully. I had a certain legalman at my command that did have some grudge against me, and I still don’t know why 20+ years later, but between that and not even being twenty years old yet I was naive enough to just sign what they put in front of me. Sure, I wish I could go back knowing what I know now, but it all worked out for me in the end, but again this is not the norm. This is why I am so damn passionate about fair and just discharges, and decided after my own NDRB that I will advocate for and help anyone that I can!
Please do keep us in the loop regarding your progress and outcome, and most importantly use the resources that you have right now while still in the service for any rehab needs or the like. You didn’t specify in your post whether your alcohol-related troubles were an ongoing issue, or just something that blew up in your face, but you still have the resources available if you need them. You also will have the VA’s resources available for a wide array of free or low cost healthcare after your discharge regardless of whether it’s honorable or general. Most of us on RP will tell you to use the VA once you get out as we receive pretty good care there!
Again, best of luck!
The reason that I’m commenting with such detail PV2 Austin Lohmann is because we want you to be successful, and by stressing the hardships, perhaps we could light a fire under your ass to get you moving this along the right way now, saving you much time and headache in the future. Christina Thundathil is 100% right about them cutting corners, to them it’s just more paperwork passing over their desk to sign off on. Period. Nobody is going to help you unless you ask for it, and legal will be the best resource possible since they will look up regs that none of us even knew existed and present those to your chain of command. If your chain of command thinks legal is going to make it harder on them than a simple “rubber stamp,” they will likely make the necessary tweaks to your DD214 to out process you with minimal headache on their part. As long as they don’t have any grudges against you, I don’t see why they won’t try to make your characterization of service more beneficial, especially if you and legal are asking respectfully. I had a certain legalman at my command that did have some grudge against me, and I still don’t know why 20+ years later, but between that and not even being twenty years old yet I was naive enough to just sign what they put in front of me. Sure, I wish I could go back knowing what I know now, but it all worked out for me in the end, but again this is not the norm. This is why I am so damn passionate about fair and just discharges, and decided after my own NDRB that I will advocate for and help anyone that I can!
Please do keep us in the loop regarding your progress and outcome, and most importantly use the resources that you have right now while still in the service for any rehab needs or the like. You didn’t specify in your post whether your alcohol-related troubles were an ongoing issue, or just something that blew up in your face, but you still have the resources available if you need them. You also will have the VA’s resources available for a wide array of free or low cost healthcare after your discharge regardless of whether it’s honorable or general. Most of us on RP will tell you to use the VA once you get out as we receive pretty good care there!
Again, best of luck!
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I would assume if they told you it would now be a General than that’s what it will be. You should be able to appeal it after separation. https://arba.army.pentagon.mil/adrb-overview.html
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