Posted on Aug 19, 2015
Immigration. Should illegals be offered a path to citizenship?
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Immigration
Homeland Security
Citizenship
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 34
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I believe any immigrant who earns an honorable discharge after at least 1 active duty tour in any of the 5 branches should be rewarded with citizenship. If they are so truly committed to becoming citizens, they will have no reservations with putting their life on the line like the rest of us. Our founding fathers put their lives on the line as immigrants and became citizens - I see no problem with following their example and making it a new tradition. While the efficacy can be a circular debate, 25 nations of the world have compulsory military service (most only for men). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service
As for how to deal with existing illegals, give them an option - tour of duty or deportation. I'm aware that some are deported several times and still get back in. To that point, I say bus them directly to the front lines - no deportation... Those individuals have proven they really want to be in the US, so compulsory service will ensure their path to citizenship.
Anchor babies to illegals - the parents become work-visa'd nannies until the first child's 18th birthday, or they earn citizenship before the 18th birthday of the first child. If the parents are still illegal by the 18th birthday of their anchor child, then the nanny visa expires and the illegal immigrant parents are sent to the front lines to earn their citizenship.
It's fairly simple once you find a way to funnel them into a path that guarantees the desired outcome. The current immigration/deportation system may as well be "catch and release", since there is a staggering number of repeat immigration offenders and illegals with known repeat, or pre-existing, criminal behaviour. https://www.numbersusa.com/news/study-almost-all-deported-illegal-aliens-were-criminals
Deportation isn't solving the problem, so maybe compulsory service will. They'll get job training that can lead to a career (in or out of service), healthcare, a roof over their head (barracks only, no BEQ/MEQ), access to university degree education (degree programs should also be mandatory service-wide, but that's another thread), a paycheck, and they'll pay into the tax system that is currently being leached. Oh, drafting, conscription, compulsory service, that's so against their civil rights - illegals are criminals, make them earn their freedom. Make them earn their citizenship through service - they'll come out with more to offer than an ID card and criminal intent.
... end rant...
As for how to deal with existing illegals, give them an option - tour of duty or deportation. I'm aware that some are deported several times and still get back in. To that point, I say bus them directly to the front lines - no deportation... Those individuals have proven they really want to be in the US, so compulsory service will ensure their path to citizenship.
Anchor babies to illegals - the parents become work-visa'd nannies until the first child's 18th birthday, or they earn citizenship before the 18th birthday of the first child. If the parents are still illegal by the 18th birthday of their anchor child, then the nanny visa expires and the illegal immigrant parents are sent to the front lines to earn their citizenship.
It's fairly simple once you find a way to funnel them into a path that guarantees the desired outcome. The current immigration/deportation system may as well be "catch and release", since there is a staggering number of repeat immigration offenders and illegals with known repeat, or pre-existing, criminal behaviour. https://www.numbersusa.com/news/study-almost-all-deported-illegal-aliens-were-criminals
Deportation isn't solving the problem, so maybe compulsory service will. They'll get job training that can lead to a career (in or out of service), healthcare, a roof over their head (barracks only, no BEQ/MEQ), access to university degree education (degree programs should also be mandatory service-wide, but that's another thread), a paycheck, and they'll pay into the tax system that is currently being leached. Oh, drafting, conscription, compulsory service, that's so against their civil rights - illegals are criminals, make them earn their freedom. Make them earn their citizenship through service - they'll come out with more to offer than an ID card and criminal intent.
... end rant...
Military service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Military service is service by an individual or group in an army or other militia, whether as a chosen job or as a result of an involuntary draft (conscription). Some nations (e.g., Mexico) require a specific amount of military service from every citizen (except for special cases, such as physical or mental disorders or religious beliefs, and most countries that have conscription only conscript men). A nation with a fully volunteer military...
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I served with someone from the Dominican Republic who joined the U.S. Army . . . and got a fast track to citizenship in five years. How about someone from a family of illegal immigrants being required to serve in the military to become a legal immigrant and then a sponsor of other family members?
I have a friend who did everything the right way, legally, and through a very expensive lawyer whose assistance with immigration paperwork seemed to correlate to having received a large amount of funding over time. Once the lawyer's apparent target cost had been reached then he did his job. Immigrating legally is costly and time-consuming. (The friend had earned a BA, MA, and Ph.D. as a scholarship student living in U.S. 15 years without being able to legally work, and eventually was hired to teach at a university that sponsored legal residency.)
Why should folks be awarded citizenship for illegally immigrating? Let them serve in the military if they want to be exonerated and have the opportunity to become citizens. Anyone who immigrates also needs to assimilate and become American to add to a previous cultural identity. Culturally, the military is a great equalizer and maker of good citizens . . . a preferable method of assimilating compared to learning from trashy Hollywood movies that scrape the bottom of the barrel of human decency.
I have a friend who did everything the right way, legally, and through a very expensive lawyer whose assistance with immigration paperwork seemed to correlate to having received a large amount of funding over time. Once the lawyer's apparent target cost had been reached then he did his job. Immigrating legally is costly and time-consuming. (The friend had earned a BA, MA, and Ph.D. as a scholarship student living in U.S. 15 years without being able to legally work, and eventually was hired to teach at a university that sponsored legal residency.)
Why should folks be awarded citizenship for illegally immigrating? Let them serve in the military if they want to be exonerated and have the opportunity to become citizens. Anyone who immigrates also needs to assimilate and become American to add to a previous cultural identity. Culturally, the military is a great equalizer and maker of good citizens . . . a preferable method of assimilating compared to learning from trashy Hollywood movies that scrape the bottom of the barrel of human decency.
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PO1 Aaron Baltosser
Too many are wanted in their host countries, are gang affiliated/ cartel affiliated, and present a serious security risk to be an asset to a military unit. The cartels and gangs have been sending people to join the military here so their tactics, procedures, and techniques as a criminal empire improve. Not a good return on investment for the U. S. In any way.
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SSG Red Hoffman you bring up a key point that our politicians will eventually have to handle (and probably not well.) And because the politicians can't make a decision over anything except to follow money, it may not be a good decision.
Know a lady who has followed the process exactly and after 12 years is still waiting to be processed.
My son-in-law is British. He had to go through a lot to get his visa. He did it by the book, has been here almost two years and still has more steps to take.
There definitely needs to be a defined program that details what a person must do to gain legal status if they are currently illegal. It should not be a long process (see above.) Perhaps the completion certain steps grant the applicant specific rewards that further them along their path.
Know a lady who has followed the process exactly and after 12 years is still waiting to be processed.
My son-in-law is British. He had to go through a lot to get his visa. He did it by the book, has been here almost two years and still has more steps to take.
There definitely needs to be a defined program that details what a person must do to gain legal status if they are currently illegal. It should not be a long process (see above.) Perhaps the completion certain steps grant the applicant specific rewards that further them along their path.
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No they should not be granted citizenship. Illegal immigrants need to be deported to the country from whence they came, and if they come here illegally again, they should be shot on sight.
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Suspended Profile
Many will "pooh-pooh" it as liberal propaganda, but the movie, "A Day without a Mexican" makes clear the contributions to our economy. Last season in Washington state, an Apple grower tried to hire American workers in his orchard, and none took him up on the job.
So, yes, illegal immigrants who are working and contributing to the economy should be granted a path to citizenship. Further, their children, who were brought here as very young folks should be immediately granted a path, given that they had no choice in the matter. They don't, for the most part, even speak Spanish, so deporting them to their countries of origin is crazy...
So, yes, illegal immigrants who are working and contributing to the economy should be granted a path to citizenship. Further, their children, who were brought here as very young folks should be immediately granted a path, given that they had no choice in the matter. They don't, for the most part, even speak Spanish, so deporting them to their countries of origin is crazy...
SSG Red Hoffman
LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow - I am not in agreement with your thoughts on the economy if all illegals were to be removed from the picture. Sure, they do provide to our economy in the sense that they earn/spend and they also provide work that in turn helps employers provide products and services to others, but in the same breath, you have to add that they utilize our welfare programs and health care services without being able to reimburse for these services, driving the costs to citizens up in the form of taxes and health insurance. If there would be an exodus of illegals, I think this country would manage the impact to the economy with little effort and possibly be better off in the long run. My two cents.
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Suspended Profile
SSG Red Hoffman I think we'll have to agree to disagree. From what I've been told, many of these illegal workers actually pay FICA taxes. And, if they are working, they generally aren't on Welfare. Further, while I see lots of people in this country screaming about taxes, we pay some of the lowest taxes in the world, and who do these rates benefit? Certainly not the Middle Class - no they benefit the ultra rich.
Suspended Profile
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette I don't see you offering much more than hyperbole and blanket statements either. Let's just agree to disagree on the social issues.
I agree 100% that the southern and northern borders are huge security issues, but to fix that will require way more money than the GOP will ever allow to be spent, and they are claimed proponents of border security.
I also think that given out country's history AND the huge numbers of illegals, an amnesty program granting some form of legal status is the best way to fix this issue. Then all these people whom you decry would be paying all taxes on their earnings...
I agree 100% that the southern and northern borders are huge security issues, but to fix that will require way more money than the GOP will ever allow to be spent, and they are claimed proponents of border security.
I also think that given out country's history AND the huge numbers of illegals, an amnesty program granting some form of legal status is the best way to fix this issue. Then all these people whom you decry would be paying all taxes on their earnings...
SGT Jerrold Pesz
The idea that illegals would be paying taxes if we gave them amnesty is just a dream. Most have an elementary school education or less and tend to do menial jobs that don't pay much. They also tend to have very big families. What would actually happen is that most of them would be drawing welfare and collecting other benefits which would far exceed any taxes that they might pay. Even those who come here legally tend to end up drawing welfare. If we really need millions more illiterate and unskilled people why don't we quit wasting money on schools and just grow our own? Make them do miltary service? How many could actually get it the service? The days of "cannon fodder" are past. The military doesn't want illiterates either. What they do bring is crime, contagious diseases and trashy neighborhoods. We are not getting the cream of the crop. Instead we are mostly getting the dregs of their own society.
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Sure, go home and apply for citizenship, just like all those before you.
"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 60% of Likely U.S. Voters think the U.S. government is not aggressive enough in deporting those who are in this country illegally. That shows little change from April but is up from 52% in April of last year. Twelve percent (12%) think the government is too aggressive, down from 16% in April. Sixteen percent (16%) now think the number of deportations is about right, while 12% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.) is a Libertarian group and they think most everything is OK."
From a reputable polling firm.
"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 60% of Likely U.S. Voters think the U.S. government is not aggressive enough in deporting those who are in this country illegally. That shows little change from April but is up from 52% in April of last year. Twelve percent (12%) think the government is too aggressive, down from 16% in April. Sixteen percent (16%) now think the number of deportations is about right, while 12% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.) is a Libertarian group and they think most everything is OK."
From a reputable polling firm.
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Similar to you Redd, my wife and I went through all the necessary channels to get her legal right to live here. However, rounding them all up and doing mass deportation is much easier said than done and extremely expensive.
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SGT Jerrold Pesz
Not hard at all. Start jailing the people who hire them and most of them would self-deport. If there is suddenly no jobs there is little reason for them to be here.
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The path for citizenship exists today, these people just want to go to the head of the line. That is unfair to all those that do things properly and wait for years to gain legal entry into our great nation. They should all come forward and identify themselves and be given temporary work permits, and be put in line for a spot immediately after all those legally applying for entry. NOTE: I did not say deport or put them on a bus, we do need the labor since we have a great number of natural born citizens that will not work for a living and we need the taxes to pay for their keep. Those that don't identify themselves are probably involved in nefarious businesses.
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