Posted on Jan 27, 2015
In the Army and Marines, the First Sergeant is often referred to as "Top," or "Top Kick." Why is this so offensive for some?
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"In setting up the American Army, General Washington relied heavily on the talents of General Baron Von Steuben. During this time, Von Steuben wrote what is referred to as the "Blue Book of Regulations." This "Blue Book" covered most of the organizational, administrative, and disciplinary details necessary to operate the Continental Army.
While Von Steubon outlined the duties of such NCOs as the Sergeant Major, Quartermaster Sergeant and other key NCOs it was the Company First Sergeant, the American Equivalent of the Prussian Feldwebel, that he directed most of his attention. This noncommissioned officer, chosen by officers of the company, was the linchpin of the company and the discipline of the unit. The conduct of the troops, their exactness in obeying orders and the regularity of their manners, would "in a large measure, depend upon the First Sergeant's vigilance." The First Sergeant therefore must be "intimately acquainted with the character of every soldier in the company and should take great pains to impress upon their minds the indispensable necessity of the strictest obedience as the foundation of order and regularity." Their tasks of maintaining the duty roster in an equitable manner, taking "the daily orders in a book and showing them to their officers, making the morning report to the captain of the state of the company in the form prescribed, and at the same time, acquainting them with anything material that may have happened in the company since the preceding report," all closely resembled the duties of the 17th century company sergeant.
The First Sergeant also kept a company descriptive book under the captain's supervision. These descriptive books listed the names, ages, heights, places of birth, and prior occupations of all enlisted in the company. The Army maintained the books until about the decade of the 20th century when they were finally replaced by the "Morning Report."
Since the First Sergeant was responsible for the entire company, he was, in Von Steuben's words, "not to go on duty, unless with the whole company, but is to be in camp quarters to answer any call that may be made."
On the march or on the battlefield, they were "Never to lead a platoon or section, but always to be a file closer in the formation of the company, their duty being in the company like the adjutant's in the regiment."
In the Army and Marines, the first sergeant is often referred to as "Top," or "Top Kick." The nickname has obvious roots in that the first sergeant is the "top" enlisted person in the unit, and a "kick in the pants" is a motivation tool (not literally, at least in today's military) to get the troops into gear." (retrieve from http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theservices/a/firstsergeant_3.htm)
First sergeants are generally the senior non-commissioned officers of company (battery, troop) sized units, and are unofficially but commonly referred to as "first shirt", "top", "top sergeant", "top soldier", "top kick", due to their seniority and their position at the top of the company's enlisted ranks. They are sometimes referred to as "second hat" because the Company Commander may entrust them with important responsibilities, even over one of the company's lieutenants.
First sergeants handle the leadership and professional development of their soldiers, noncommissioned officer development, manage pay issues, supervise administrative issues, manage the promotable soldiers within the company, and are the first step in disciplinary actions such as an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment) proceeding. A first sergeant may place a soldier under arrest in quarters in certain cases, as well as manage all of the daily responsibilities of running the company/unit.
While Von Steubon outlined the duties of such NCOs as the Sergeant Major, Quartermaster Sergeant and other key NCOs it was the Company First Sergeant, the American Equivalent of the Prussian Feldwebel, that he directed most of his attention. This noncommissioned officer, chosen by officers of the company, was the linchpin of the company and the discipline of the unit. The conduct of the troops, their exactness in obeying orders and the regularity of their manners, would "in a large measure, depend upon the First Sergeant's vigilance." The First Sergeant therefore must be "intimately acquainted with the character of every soldier in the company and should take great pains to impress upon their minds the indispensable necessity of the strictest obedience as the foundation of order and regularity." Their tasks of maintaining the duty roster in an equitable manner, taking "the daily orders in a book and showing them to their officers, making the morning report to the captain of the state of the company in the form prescribed, and at the same time, acquainting them with anything material that may have happened in the company since the preceding report," all closely resembled the duties of the 17th century company sergeant.
The First Sergeant also kept a company descriptive book under the captain's supervision. These descriptive books listed the names, ages, heights, places of birth, and prior occupations of all enlisted in the company. The Army maintained the books until about the decade of the 20th century when they were finally replaced by the "Morning Report."
Since the First Sergeant was responsible for the entire company, he was, in Von Steuben's words, "not to go on duty, unless with the whole company, but is to be in camp quarters to answer any call that may be made."
On the march or on the battlefield, they were "Never to lead a platoon or section, but always to be a file closer in the formation of the company, their duty being in the company like the adjutant's in the regiment."
In the Army and Marines, the first sergeant is often referred to as "Top," or "Top Kick." The nickname has obvious roots in that the first sergeant is the "top" enlisted person in the unit, and a "kick in the pants" is a motivation tool (not literally, at least in today's military) to get the troops into gear." (retrieve from http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theservices/a/firstsergeant_3.htm)
First sergeants are generally the senior non-commissioned officers of company (battery, troop) sized units, and are unofficially but commonly referred to as "first shirt", "top", "top sergeant", "top soldier", "top kick", due to their seniority and their position at the top of the company's enlisted ranks. They are sometimes referred to as "second hat" because the Company Commander may entrust them with important responsibilities, even over one of the company's lieutenants.
First sergeants handle the leadership and professional development of their soldiers, noncommissioned officer development, manage pay issues, supervise administrative issues, manage the promotable soldiers within the company, and are the first step in disciplinary actions such as an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment) proceeding. A first sergeant may place a soldier under arrest in quarters in certain cases, as well as manage all of the daily responsibilities of running the company/unit.
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 117
"In the Army and Marines, the first sergeant is often referred to as "Top," or "Top Kick." Why is so offensive for some?"
1: As has been pointed out by Marines, Marines do not call the unit First Sergeant "Top"
2: In the Army, the only position I ever heard call "Top" was the company 1SG.
3: If someone is calling a SGM/CSM "Top" they are ignorant at least, and likely stupid as well.
4: When I was a First Sergeant, it did not bother me when a troop called me "Top" it is an appropriate nickname, even if not actually authorized term of address. I preferred First Sergeant, but did not even blink at Top.
5: If an actual company First Sergeant E8 is getting his (her, other) panties in a wad over being called "Top" Id bet the BN and BDE CSM have concerns and issues with that 1SG's leadership ability..I know I would...if that is what the 1SG chooses to focus on ....Id bet they expend hundreds of man hours defending the grass from being used to train on, rocks are painted weekly, and gravel is raked into neat lines so the unit CSM is impressed (which by the way he is not, unless he is a turd as well) and not a sqd in his unit can perform all basic individual or squad tasks to standard....but hey, no one is calling him "Top"
1: As has been pointed out by Marines, Marines do not call the unit First Sergeant "Top"
2: In the Army, the only position I ever heard call "Top" was the company 1SG.
3: If someone is calling a SGM/CSM "Top" they are ignorant at least, and likely stupid as well.
4: When I was a First Sergeant, it did not bother me when a troop called me "Top" it is an appropriate nickname, even if not actually authorized term of address. I preferred First Sergeant, but did not even blink at Top.
5: If an actual company First Sergeant E8 is getting his (her, other) panties in a wad over being called "Top" Id bet the BN and BDE CSM have concerns and issues with that 1SG's leadership ability..I know I would...if that is what the 1SG chooses to focus on ....Id bet they expend hundreds of man hours defending the grass from being used to train on, rocks are painted weekly, and gravel is raked into neat lines so the unit CSM is impressed (which by the way he is not, unless he is a turd as well) and not a sqd in his unit can perform all basic individual or squad tasks to standard....but hey, no one is calling him "Top"
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CPL Modesto Macia-Perez
SPC Donald Pierce - My experience was the same, I had the same "Top" in AIT as in South Korea, in formation, he was 1st SGT, on a one on one or informal gathering, we called him TOPs, never felt any 1st SGT. was offended by being called TOP.
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CPL Modesto Macia-Perez
1st SGT Potts I believe was his name, Top at Ft. Gordon, AIT then at Camp Colbern, 83-85, we were all crooks!!!
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CPL Modesto Macia-Perez
That's what 1SGT Potts use to call all of us, CROOKS, LOL. Good man Potts, I may have his name wrong, I'll double check, but almost sure I'm right.
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Sgt Bob Corridan
In the Marine Corps and in Okinawa and Viet Nam Master Sgt Lilly was always called TOP...it was never directed in a form of disrespect but to acknowledge his rank..I don't ever recall saying "morning Master Sgt" but I do recall always saying "morning Top" or "roger that Top"...and I never never never referred to my C.O. as LT or Cap..it was either Lieutenant or Captain or Sir...I have no idea where that Hollywood nonsense of LT got starteed.
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Incorrect. While technically inappropriate, MSgts in the Marines are sometimes addressed as "Top", just as GySgts are addressed as "Gunny". 1stSgts in the Marines are only to be addressed as "First Sergeant". In the Army, the term "Top" has been used to address senior enlisted, and not just 1SGs; I've called a SGM "Top" at times (he was more than OK with it). The term "shirt" or "first shirt" has only been historically used in reference to USAF 1st Sgts and not as a form of address.
To answer your question, some don't like it as they look at it as disrespectful in the sense that it somehow diminishes or cheapens the rank, or by thinking it's unprofessional. It's a matter of personal preference.
To answer your question, some don't like it as they look at it as disrespectful in the sense that it somehow diminishes or cheapens the rank, or by thinking it's unprofessional. It's a matter of personal preference.
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MCPO Forrest Erickson
Much simpler in the Navy, E7= Chief, E8=Senior Chief, E9=Master Chief and that's how you address them. E4 thru E6=PO.
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SSG David Thompson
In the artillery, firing battery section chiefs are usually E6. Even though I was in Bn HQ, after I made E6 when I was a firing battery area the soldiers would call me “chief”.
When we trained with the local troops in Honduras, they didn’t have as many ranks as we do, and four stripes was a senior NCO to them, and they salute senior NCOs, so we had to get used to being saluted, and would return the salute and keep on going.
When we trained with the local troops in Honduras, they didn’t have as many ranks as we do, and four stripes was a senior NCO to them, and they salute senior NCOs, so we had to get used to being saluted, and would return the salute and keep on going.
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PO2 Hank Kaczmarek
The only time I heard an Army First Sgt. called a Top Kick it was Burt Lancaster in From Here to Eternity.
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SSgt Charles Freeman
In the Marine Corps Airwing Msgts, and Mgysgts are routinely addressed as Top, especially if you have a working relationship with them. Warrant Officers are also routinely addressed as Gunner, not to be confused with Gunny.
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I was a First Sergeant for six years and a Command Sergeant Major for 17 years. Top is a term in the Army that is reserved for the First Shirt or First Sergeant, the top NCO in his company. Could also be used for the acting First Sergeant. As a Sergeant Major, I never had a Soldier to address me as Top.
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CSM William Payne
Typically it is the senior NCOs that refer to a First Sergeant as Top, because they have that working relationship. There was another Marine SSgt on this thread said he also referred to his Sergeant Major as Top.
As a Sergeant Major I would not get bent if a Soldier call me Top, but I would use it as a teaching moment to correct the individual. Sergeants Major or Command Sergeants Major should be referred to as Sergeant Major.
As a Sergeant Major I would not get bent if a Soldier call me Top, but I would use it as a teaching moment to correct the individual. Sergeants Major or Command Sergeants Major should be referred to as Sergeant Major.
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Marine 1stSgt's are never called "Top" Calling the 1stSgt "Top" is like walking on the SgtMaj's grass! You just don't do it!!
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When I served I always said 1SG if I were in formation or other soldiers were around. To me it sounded more respectful. I only used "Top" if in private conversation. That was just me because in Field Artillery it is common to call your 1SG, "Top."
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SSgt Dan Rivett
Never would you catch a Marine calling a 1stSgt top just like you wouldn't call a SSgt a Sgt if you did it wasn't going to be a nice day for them
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Calling a Marine Corps First Sergeant "Top" would be about the same result as calling a SNCO "Sarge" you won't like the result, either way.
The only terms of endearment we ever used in an Infantry Battalion were "boot" "shower shoe" am get a few others for the young Marines new to the Unit and straight out of SOI (School of Infantry).
We referred to our Ops Chief as either Gunny OR Top (depending on his rank) and our Company First Sergeant was "First Sergeant" and the BN Sergeant Major was "Sergeant Major" wed have a few Master Gunnery Sergeants floating around in occasion and we affectionately called them "Master Guns"
CWO's were always called Sir, unless that CWO was an Infantry Weapons Specialist known as a "Gunner" and it was either Sir OR if you knew him, it was "Gunner"
We all know what butter bars were called (refer to above "boot") though we called them "Sir"
the Company Commander was either Sir, Captain or "skipper" if he was good shit.
It used to drive me f'n crazy to hear an Army SSgt or SFC (E-6 and E-7) called "Sarge!"
The only terms of endearment we ever used in an Infantry Battalion were "boot" "shower shoe" am get a few others for the young Marines new to the Unit and straight out of SOI (School of Infantry).
We referred to our Ops Chief as either Gunny OR Top (depending on his rank) and our Company First Sergeant was "First Sergeant" and the BN Sergeant Major was "Sergeant Major" wed have a few Master Gunnery Sergeants floating around in occasion and we affectionately called them "Master Guns"
CWO's were always called Sir, unless that CWO was an Infantry Weapons Specialist known as a "Gunner" and it was either Sir OR if you knew him, it was "Gunner"
We all know what butter bars were called (refer to above "boot") though we called them "Sir"
the Company Commander was either Sir, Captain or "skipper" if he was good shit.
It used to drive me f'n crazy to hear an Army SSgt or SFC (E-6 and E-7) called "Sarge!"
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Cpl Kurt Huber
I was Active Duty from 1992- 1996
so I am definitely new Corps compared to you sateen wearing Korean War and Vietnam era warriors!
Semper Fidelis my Brothers!
so I am definitely new Corps compared to you sateen wearing Korean War and Vietnam era warriors!
Semper Fidelis my Brothers!
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Capt John Dillon
Cpl Kurt Huber - No, you are correct in every era. My dad was a 1stSgt in 1972-73, I know for a fact that he would've killed someone who called him anything but 1stSgt. It's just the casual laziness of calling a 1stSgt "Top" that is so not Marine Corps. In that day they were almost exclusively combat arms Marines that became 1stSgts, and I think that attitude carried over (what's the saying, no 1stSgt ever fell into a formation under a MSgt). Personally, from Pvt to being an Officer, I always referred to every 1stSgt as just that. They can help you out or make your life difficult. The COs right-hand man. They are not a "section chief" or "Shop SNCOIC".
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Cpl Kurt Huber
Sir, in my personal experience ALL of the First Sergeants that we had in our Weapons Company were non-Infantry, two were POGS (as you can imagine, there were many "non-rec's" and more than normal NJP's during their tenure).
I can honestly say we only had one 1StSgt we grunts truly admired and highly respected (he EARNED it everyday), he came over AAMTRAKS, he was a damn fine Marine, man and First Sergeant.
No one really batted an eye when we had to go see the 1StSgt (other than the one mentioned), whereas if we were sent to see "Top" for an ass chewing it was surreal, his very first unit was 1/9 in Vietnam (so no further explanation is needed).
He made us feel bad, no one wanted to disappoint Top, he was as salty as the Dead Sea and he was the "go to" SNCO for even the XO and CO when this needed to happen.
I can honestly say we only had one 1StSgt we grunts truly admired and highly respected (he EARNED it everyday), he came over AAMTRAKS, he was a damn fine Marine, man and First Sergeant.
No one really batted an eye when we had to go see the 1StSgt (other than the one mentioned), whereas if we were sent to see "Top" for an ass chewing it was surreal, his very first unit was 1/9 in Vietnam (so no further explanation is needed).
He made us feel bad, no one wanted to disappoint Top, he was as salty as the Dead Sea and he was the "go to" SNCO for even the XO and CO when this needed to happen.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
Just think of Sarge in Beetle Bailey's cartoon. Wasn't offensive to him either, nor was it offensive to me during my 11 years time-in-grade as an E7.
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In our artillery battery, we referred to our 1st Sgt as "top" and in addressing him as well...he had no problem with it...some don't like it , as they think of spinning like a top...but i simply find them to be the "top" dog NCO in the battery so therefore a compliment.
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PFC Tim Danaher
I was in the Marines Artillery and we always called the Master Sargent in charge of the gun platoons Top. 1985-89
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SSG (Join to see)
And we also call out platoon sergeants smoke. And our assistant platoon sergeants gunny. We are a mess up branch but I have always found for them it’s a term of respect or endearment.
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SPC Darren Coffenberry
SSG (Join to see) - We called our chief of firing battery , Smoke and our safety NCO/Gunnery Sgt....Gunny. It all depended on how well you knew them or how long you were in the unit before that was acceptable though.
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SSG (Join to see)
The 1SG is Top, and the PSG is Smoke in artillery batteries. Was,is, and always will be in the Army. I didn’t make this up and neither did anybody living now. The titles are traditional and filled with respect for those positions (not ranks) and to be called such is an honor.
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I have zero issues with my soldiers calling me "Top". If discipline in my unit is going away, or standards aren't being upheld, there is a hell of a lot more going wrong in terms of failed leadership and lack of mentorship than the use of an accepted and established slang term of endearment.
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My personal opinion is the only NCO that can be referred to as Top is the 1SG. Army '72 - '96. 3 years wearing the diamond. I heard one of my soldiers call a CSM Top and he was not happy. Of course, I was always under the belief that if you had to get a diamond before you could get a star. Moved to Bn Staff at the end, but will always wish my retirement papers were as 1SG instead of MSG. I'll never forget the feeling the first soldier called me Top. No regs just opinion.
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SPC (Join to see)
My opinion, you have to earn the right to a 1SG, Top. Inferring it can cause trouble.
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG Trout, as long as you were awarded the SQI for First Sergeant and served honorably as a 1SG it should have been your choice to retire as a 1SG, when I retired I was offered the option, my last tour, after my 3 year stint as the 1SG was as an Operations SGM (as a MSG), however, when I put in my retirement paperwork...it reflected 1SG. I would contact HRC and have them amend your retirement orders to correctly reflect 1SG (if that what you want). Should not be difficult!
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