Posted on Jun 12, 2017
In today's modern military, would there be any benefit to an enlisted structure similar to that of the past?
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I believe that most, if not all of us, are familiar with the old army enlisted rank structure where one could go their entire career without ever becoming an NCO, but still make it up through the paygrades. We all have known people who were great at their jobs but not fit to lead. Is there any benefit to bringing back such an enlisted rank structure?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 246
I think so. It would weed out the weak leadership. I have seen other SNCOs who were weak in leadership, but knew their MOS. I can't count how many times I heard this "But, Sarge, I'm not ready to go to board", "Sarge, if I get promoted, I won't be able to hang out with my buddies". Let them progress through the SPC ranks, and let the hard-stripe CPL lead from the front.
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Bringing the tech sgt ranks back would be idiotic as they were replaced with the specialists ranks ,but they should bring back the specialist ranks as we've become a more technically advanced military and just like the officer rank the warrant officer ranks are just like the specialist ranks for officers, warrant officers are experts in their technical fields but are not leaders ,they are here for their expertise. Some people are excellent at their jobs but just not a strong leader and shouldn't be placed over other soldiers but they shouldn't be put out as we need their expertise and a bad leader but a excellent expert in their field shouldn't hold up a leadership rank that a good leader should be in. This will repair alot of the problems also with the NCO promotion system and benefit soldiers and keep the the expertise in the army we need. I was in during the middle 80's and knew a couple spec5's and spec6's as that was the year they got rid of 5 and 6, it was kind of weird as they were E6 and I was a young corporal and outranked them as they had no NCO authority but they were excellent in their jobs but were horrible as a leader and the army just gave them stripes when they finally discontinued the rank and they screwed up so much as they had no leadership training as they were not required to go for their career path and promotions and they hated it as they had to immediately go to PLDC and BNCO.
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I served in the former rank structure as both a SP5 and SP6 as an enlisted CID Special Agent. MI Special Agents had a lot of the non-NCO ranks as well. Most of these MOSs, the rest of Army did not know our ranks (enlisted and warrant). Most who did bitched like a bunch of little girls. Nothing like a Colonel suspect learning through unofficial channels that his CID interrogator was a Sergeant First Class. Confessions are confessions, whoever gives them and whomever takes them.
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My self I think the ARMY should go strictly to hard rank stripes only E-4 is a E-4 CPL only get rid of the SPC rank entirely. That or have it where once you make it to promotable status you are transitioned from SPC to CPL to distinguish between the status and start preparing the soldier for their new duties once promoted.
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You a re correct, I've witnessed plenty of soldiers who were great at their jobs but due to being socially awkward B-type personalities where they weren't the best to lead soldiers. I do feel like soldiers should have some input on their career path. Some soldiers are all about coordinating training events and writing counseling's and such; while there are some that just want to do their job to the best of their ability. As you move up the rank structure, your responsibilities push you away from doing your actual job. I, myself, spend way more time doing the admin side of army than what my technical expertise is. IMHO, that's why we have ended up having to rely on contractors for a lot of tasks. Its because while the senior leaders may have an idea of how to do things, they are pulled in so many other directions that it tends to be junior enlisted that are the ones that are the experts now (mainly those terminal specialists).
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I am with rank comes responsibility and leadership. I can’t imagine being an E-5 or greater and not standing in front of soldiers
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There is absolutely room in the Army for the return of Spec 5 and 6, especially in your technical fields. During my time in on the aviation side of things when an experienced mechanic becomes an NCO there is no longer time for these people to pass along their knowledge of the job to the newer soldiers. The entire focus for them shifts from being an expert in the skill to maintaining order and discipline of their soldiers. They just don't have the time to teach them the job and lead them as NCO's at the same time.
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Not only no, but hell no. Granted there are soldiers that can’t lead, but why cowtow to them. If you can’t lead, why other employment. Years past, we had the the specialist ranks through E7, but hey boys and girls, some of them had leadership responsibilities. For every SP7, there were several SP6s and below. Someone had to be in charge. Therefore this millennial argument is moot. Call me archaic, call me old school, but we’ve already had this discussion before. The answer was no then, and it’s no now.
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I think the better question is the"up or out" policy hurting our readiness? Is forcing out a good E4 helping us? Just because they aren't ready to get stripes. Should specialties that are top heavy served by constantly having to train new privates instead of retaining good specialists that are swimming against a strong current to promotion?
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