Posted on Jun 12, 2017
SGT Joseph Gunderson
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I believe that most, if not all of us, are familiar with the old army enlisted rank structure where one could go their entire career without ever becoming an NCO, but still make it up through the paygrades. We all have known people who were great at their jobs but not fit to lead. Is there any benefit to bringing back such an enlisted rank structure?
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Responses: 246
SGT Albert Thompson
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I feel that the specialist ranks should only be available to specialized, non-combat MOSs, such as certain medical and high level technical specialties.
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SFC Ted Agens
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sure there is for the reason stated. it would also help to keep NCO's from getting 'double-tapped' by having to be in charge of their section/squad and being assigned "additional duties" -that were more like full time--at BN or BDE. Let the specialists handle that. Those who are NCO's should get slightly hire pay though for being leaders.
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SMSgt Sheila Berg
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I have witness some make rank for the pay but have no leadership skills.
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SCPO Builder
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I believe the Brits and Canucks have or had a Senior Corporal that is an expert in his profession. They were paid like an E-6 but could stay doing their job for their career. That makes sense to me but all of the Specialist paygrades seems stupid. I do think there are places for SMEs in today’s military as there are many good troops who are not or will never be leaders.
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CMSgt Steve Pennington
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Great question, and not a new one either. My career included 3 years of Army service, so I am familiar with the Specialist ranks and my brothers (5 0f us 7 boys) and my dad were Army, so I know a little about the Tech. ranks of WWII. Those ranks were specifically for training and expertise in a non leadership role. In the days before Up or Out you could spend a career and retire as an E-4. Those days are long gone. My personal opinion is that up through E=5 the Specialist ranks/rating is appropriate, but after that NCOs should be in leadership positions. Warrant Officers are another situation, and clearly defined as to roles and responsibilities. The Air Force has no Warrant ranks and are now looking at opening up that rank structure to address the current pilot shortage.
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SFC Gerald Halbur
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I did not like it when they did away with the specialist 5-7, there are some people that should never be in charge of more than a wheel barrow but are really good at a specific specialty
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SSG UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
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I think it should only go the spc6. There should still be a board and promotion points. But it shouldn’t continue past that point. If they don’t want to continue on that’s fine and they can still do their 20 years without RCP. But you shouldn’t be able to go past that without being a leader.
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CSM Ralph Hernandez
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I was in the Army for 35 years and I don't think that I ever saw a Spec 8 or 9, but I do agree with the Specialist ranks.
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CPT Derial Bivens
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I think it is time to bring back the technical or specialist ranks. The SPC rank is the most mis- used rank in the service. Senior leaders place SPCs in leadership positions all the time. If a soldier is in a supervisory position, he needs to be a hard-striper. The argument of "up or out" is fallacious. The pyramidal rank structure forces good soldiers out because they're either forced to become leaders when they either do not have leadership potential or have no desire to be in a leadership position. If they wish to feed their families, they have to get promoted or get out and find a higher paying civilian job. One way to look at it is that NCOs are often placed in charge of soldiers with more than one MOS among them. The technical or specialist grades would allow good soldiers who do not wish to be leaders to have a career in their field and have the added benefit of opening up opportunities for soldiers who have leadership potential and desire to be leaders. I was an SP-5 for a few years before they did away with the grade and made us all "hard stripers". I took a commission soon after promotion to SSG. Those of us who held the SP-5 rank often jokingly referred to ourselves as "Private E-5s". BUT...we did not have the added responsibilities of troop leadership, which is a job unto itself. We are able to focus solely on our MOS duties and we became VERY GOOD at what we did. At that time, most soldiers actually worked in their MOS a few days a month, at best and spent the rest of their time picking up cigarette butts, painting rocks, and many, many other BS work details. For us, work details were left to privates and supervised by NCOs. As specialists, we were left alone to excel in our areas of specialty. Which brings me back to the mis-used SPC rank. In the days before the specialist ranks, promotion to corporal was more competitive than to sergeant, because the field was larger. In the beginning, the specialist ranks were highly coveted but by the end of the Vietnam Era, senior leaders were using them as over paid privates and it has only worsened since then. Restore the specialist ranks (including the E-4 SPC) to their original concept and function. Encourage and promote potential leaders into the NCO positions.
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COL Ron Long
COL Ron Long
>1 y
The Army promotes Soldiers to their level of incompetence. Best Mechanic ever.. Make him the motor sergeant and he fails miserably so now it's time to QMP the Soldier for poor performance when he was the best mechanic ever. There is some merit to the Spec grades 5 & 6. Will allow them to retire at 20 and still allow them to be the best at what they do.
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SPC Motor Transport Operator
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I say yes and no it would be beneficial if we had a rank structure similar to that. Unfortunately it would be abused. I feel that it would work better for everyone if you had to complete all levels to advance to sgt. Maybe even have a way to distinguish between field grade and hq.
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SSG Darrell Peters
SSG Darrell Peters
5 y
Even with the Specialist Ranks. I still believe they need to attend NCOES. Although the question is. Should NCOES be required for promotion with in the Specialist Ranks or only required for a Lateral Promotion?
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