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Soldiers just completed a 32-hour mission on the road. They get to a tiny FOB in Iraq and have 12 minutes left to grab food before the chow hall closes. The Soldiers are not freshly shaved and cannot easily access their personal hygiene items therefore technically out of regulation. Would you enforce the standard and make the Soldiers immediately go shave or would you not enforce the standard and let the Soldiers go eat?
With so many responses on RP about how we don’t have the right to pick and choose which standards we enforce, what would you do?
With so many responses on RP about how we don’t have the right to pick and choose which standards we enforce, what would you do?
Standards
Common sense
Army Regulations
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 117
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In the scenario you listed, anyone who does not let these solders eat deserves the fragmentation grenade that was rolled into their tent.
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PFC (Join to see)
I'm with SGT Michael Davis on this it not right period. How would like to be in there shoes just getting done with a mission that lasted 24 hours, then finally get a chance to eat but can't because you're dirty and haven't shaven. That's not right for anybody to treated that way I don't care what your rank is.
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SPC (Join to see)
Who hasn't been told they weren't allowed into the DFAC because their uniform was sweaty and dirty? It happened to us all the time both tours in Iraq.. Just one of the many reasons so many soldiers are disillusioned with the military and its leadership..
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SPC Robert Lewis
This is not a new issue in the Army. In terms of the "25 years ago this was easier "comment GEN Patton was notorious for instituting a similar standard in his chow halls in North Africa.similarly, in the civil war there is a houmous story in CO Aytch where he attempts to submit a leave form multiple times through his chain of command, and is rejected because the paper is dirty. The implicit question here is what purpose do these policies have? And if those objectives are upheld while allowing dirty post op personnel into a DFAC then why are they being applied in these cases?
To me the answer is simple; a lack of leadership on the chain of command to transmit the intent of the order given. I was a paratrooper and that ideally was the central core of all orders because it allows an individual to take initiative to obtain an objective in a changing environment if he knows what the desired end state is. Too often I saw this portion of orders not given the time and attention it deserved. And it sounds a little crazy to apply this to something like a DFAC reg but it acts as a test case for not combat situations. But this requires effort on the part of bith the officer and NCO chain and sadly that is very lacking in today's force. All to often the easy solution is used because the harder way is not properly rewarded. END OF REMARKS
To me the answer is simple; a lack of leadership on the chain of command to transmit the intent of the order given. I was a paratrooper and that ideally was the central core of all orders because it allows an individual to take initiative to obtain an objective in a changing environment if he knows what the desired end state is. Too often I saw this portion of orders not given the time and attention it deserved. And it sounds a little crazy to apply this to something like a DFAC reg but it acts as a test case for not combat situations. But this requires effort on the part of bith the officer and NCO chain and sadly that is very lacking in today's force. All to often the easy solution is used because the harder way is not properly rewarded. END OF REMARKS
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Suspended Profile
I remember running into this issue a lot. We came in once every 2 weeks or so for re-fit in Baghdad. The DFAC NCOIC said we couldn't come in and eat because we were dirty. My team leader at the time said "stop me then" and our platoon went through and ate of course. Like any good Infantryman would do we found the cleanest people possible and ate next to them.
SSG V. Michelle Woods
Haha how could anyone not love infantrymen? Thank you for your response SFC Josh Simpson, I knew you'd choose common sense first.
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Thank you for your feedback. I want everyone here to understand my point behind posting such a "DUH" question.
The point is YES there is a time and place when we should pick and choose which regulations to follow. Regulations are not black and white and neither are the majority of situations we run into.
Accomplish your mission. Use your head. Look out for your Soldiers.
The point is YES there is a time and place when we should pick and choose which regulations to follow. Regulations are not black and white and neither are the majority of situations we run into.
Accomplish your mission. Use your head. Look out for your Soldiers.
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SSG Justin Miracle
Had a similar situation this last time deployed. We were out for 8 days, and stopped by "the big base" on our way for fuel and supplies. They held chow for us which was awesome. but if we had only had 10 min i wouldn't have even thought of not letting them eat. We had a rough 8 days and I was talking to my COC with my 8 day beard. There was never even a comment about it because we were out doing our jobs, and everyone knew that as soon as we got back to our camp everyone would be in regs. I feel like i would have a hard time not losing my mind on someone had they refused them food or gave them grief for appearance.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Not sure how Army Regs are written (I'm Air Force, but as a JTAC, it seems like my job really is just making SgtMaj's go crazy), in the Air Force we have these "cut and dried" AFI's (Air Force Instructions) - they are binding, and they are the rules, no matter how stupid they might seem in context... Yet, they are all derived from Policy decisions (specifically, Air Force Policy Directives, AFPDs). These are intentionally vague in some cases and are designed as the guidance for commanders in the *reasons* for the given standards so they are enforced intelligently. Of course, most Sr. NCOs have never read them; they read into the "rule of the law" - which is often intentionally subjective in how its written - and then fall back on an RHIP mentality for their attitude towards enforcement.
I implore my troops to get familiar with the reasons for all of those regulations. If you just execute the letter of law without knowing why, you have no business even having your own cerebral cortex; we'll replace you with a superior robot just as soon as its cost effective.
And lastly, I terribly miss being a JTAC at Bragg. Most fulfilling professional job ever...
I implore my troops to get familiar with the reasons for all of those regulations. If you just execute the letter of law without knowing why, you have no business even having your own cerebral cortex; we'll replace you with a superior robot just as soon as its cost effective.
And lastly, I terribly miss being a JTAC at Bragg. Most fulfilling professional job ever...
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