Posted on Apr 20, 2021
Is enlisting 35N and transferring to 35L at E5 a viable option in the National Guard?
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I understand 35N is SIGINT and 35L is primarily HUMINT focused. I have heard that 35M is a feeder to 35L, that being said, I am weary of 35M civilian employment prospects especially as real world experience will be limited in the Guard. 35N, from what I've heard, provides very marketable skills, directly from AIT for contracting jobs and seems to have the best overall employment prospects. Nevertheless, I would still transfer for 35L if possible as Counterintelligence is where I would aim for in the long-run.
So, would a 35N ever be considered for a transfer to 35L? (National Guard only)
So, would a 35N ever be considered for a transfer to 35L? (National Guard only)
Posted in these groups: 
35N: Signals Intelligence Analyst
35L: Counterintelligence (CI) Agent
35M: Human Intelligence Collector
35N: Signals Intelligence Analyst 35L: Counterintelligence (CI) Agent 35M: Human Intelligence Collector
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 2
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Having spent time as a 35F and becoming an NCO as such, here's my take on it.
35L in the USAR is over rated. Everything in the USAR is over rated. While home in garrison doing weekend warrior stuff we fall victim to the lowest common denominator mandatory training. That is Fitness, Urine tests, SHARP, TARP, EO, maybe a range, etc.......... regardless of MOS we are all doing 90% the same thing.
35L is the hardest intel MOS to promote in. I looked into it myself. It sounded cool, but the promotion threshold was 700+ points. Just about any other 35 MOS only needed a pulse. Every time I check it's still the same thing.
35F, 35G, and 35N seem to have the best upward mobility because folks can put that to work elsewhere. Hell, the Air Force was sniping our 35G's with $100K signing bonuses. I was telling soldiers they should take it. You can always come back to the Army after if you don't like it, but don't turn away $100K for your family. Good Lord................
Now, in terms of the Intelligence Community I got a sense (while deployed and doing active 35F stuff) we military intel folks are at the bottom of the food chain. There is a HUGE gap between us and the next competent intel agency. HUGE!!!!!!!!!!
Here's what I'm getting at. The USAR recruits into its intel ranks from anyone that scored high enough on the ASVAB that graduated high school (which could be a sub 2.0 GPA), and was fit enough to get through MEPS. They are all probably too young to get into any significant trouble and easily clear a background.
The three letter agencies are pulling from anywhere they can think of, the best universities the USA has to offer. Then they test the hell out of them, and only keep pursuing those that rose to the top. Finally, they eventually train them, and continue to educate them.
So, when you are down range, and in a situation where there are three letter analysts there with PhD's guess who is making the coffee.
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If you want to use the USAR as a means to get you into full time employment in the Intel Community then jump on all deployments and missions you can get your hands on. Get experience anywhere and everywhere. Otherwise, all you have is BCT and AIT, and once back home in your reserve unit just doing monthly drills all that training relevancy washes away (unless you deploy a lot and use it).
35L in the USAR is over rated. Everything in the USAR is over rated. While home in garrison doing weekend warrior stuff we fall victim to the lowest common denominator mandatory training. That is Fitness, Urine tests, SHARP, TARP, EO, maybe a range, etc.......... regardless of MOS we are all doing 90% the same thing.
35L is the hardest intel MOS to promote in. I looked into it myself. It sounded cool, but the promotion threshold was 700+ points. Just about any other 35 MOS only needed a pulse. Every time I check it's still the same thing.
35F, 35G, and 35N seem to have the best upward mobility because folks can put that to work elsewhere. Hell, the Air Force was sniping our 35G's with $100K signing bonuses. I was telling soldiers they should take it. You can always come back to the Army after if you don't like it, but don't turn away $100K for your family. Good Lord................
Now, in terms of the Intelligence Community I got a sense (while deployed and doing active 35F stuff) we military intel folks are at the bottom of the food chain. There is a HUGE gap between us and the next competent intel agency. HUGE!!!!!!!!!!
Here's what I'm getting at. The USAR recruits into its intel ranks from anyone that scored high enough on the ASVAB that graduated high school (which could be a sub 2.0 GPA), and was fit enough to get through MEPS. They are all probably too young to get into any significant trouble and easily clear a background.
The three letter agencies are pulling from anywhere they can think of, the best universities the USA has to offer. Then they test the hell out of them, and only keep pursuing those that rose to the top. Finally, they eventually train them, and continue to educate them.
So, when you are down range, and in a situation where there are three letter analysts there with PhD's guess who is making the coffee.
***********
If you want to use the USAR as a means to get you into full time employment in the Intel Community then jump on all deployments and missions you can get your hands on. Get experience anywhere and everywhere. Otherwise, all you have is BCT and AIT, and once back home in your reserve unit just doing monthly drills all that training relevancy washes away (unless you deploy a lot and use it).
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John Marder
That's understandable, however, as I already have a bachelors degree (International Relations/Politics, with a focus on Strategy, Economics and Military Intelligence), wouldn't' having a TS security clearance and at least basic training in an intel specialty help with employment?
I'm currently a graduate, I cant really afford a masters at the moment and the option of gaining some Intel experience from AIT, a TS clearance and maybe a language at DLI if I'm lucky, is all I've got.
I'm currently a graduate, I cant really afford a masters at the moment and the option of gaining some Intel experience from AIT, a TS clearance and maybe a language at DLI if I'm lucky, is all I've got.
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CPT (Join to see)
John Marder - I enlisted with an MBA/CFA, and earned an AA in Military Intel Operations. Maybe you will have better luck. I suspect, getting on deployments and working the job is the best way to convince agencies to show an interest in you.
Honestly, if you could get a 35 MOS active duty that's probably a better path.
Imagine, you awesomely get a 3 letter agency job right out of AIT. Now your are on the hook for another 7.5 years (1/3 of an entire career) with USAR/NG conflicts.
Go active, knock out 3 years or whatever, be done with it, and 100% GI bill vested. In the USAR your GI Bill isnt worth anything until you mobilize, which could be never. I'm 10 years in and not even 100% vested yet.
Honestly, if you could get a 35 MOS active duty that's probably a better path.
Imagine, you awesomely get a 3 letter agency job right out of AIT. Now your are on the hook for another 7.5 years (1/3 of an entire career) with USAR/NG conflicts.
Go active, knock out 3 years or whatever, be done with it, and 100% GI bill vested. In the USAR your GI Bill isnt worth anything until you mobilize, which could be never. I'm 10 years in and not even 100% vested yet.
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Either 35M or 35N is viable for a transfer to 35L. However 35M has more overlap in skills and will be an easier transition.
Since you are talking specifically guard, more important than that is what is slots are available (and will be available down the road).
And finally, regarding employment, 35M is actually MORE easily transferable to civilian employment than 35N. Both are VERY marketable for federal government and government contracting jobs. However 35M skills are ALSO transferable to purely civilian jobs involving heavy human interaction, such as sales, recruiting, and some government jobs at the state and local levels.
Since you are talking specifically guard, more important than that is what is slots are available (and will be available down the road).
And finally, regarding employment, 35M is actually MORE easily transferable to civilian employment than 35N. Both are VERY marketable for federal government and government contracting jobs. However 35M skills are ALSO transferable to purely civilian jobs involving heavy human interaction, such as sales, recruiting, and some government jobs at the state and local levels.
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John Marder
Does 35M have alot of opportunities at 3 letter agencies? I understand CIA is Humint but the chances of getting a job at the CIA are far lower than the NSA for example. Would NSA ever hire a National Guard 35M, keep in mind I have a BA degree in International Relations?
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SFC Casey O'Mally
I am not in a 3-letter agency, never have been, never will be. So I cannot answer those for sure.
If your goal is SPECIFICALLY NSA, you are much better off in the signals world. I cannot say whether or not they use ANY 35M, but if they do it would be an exceptionally low amount.
However if you are just looking for a 3-letter, ANY 3-letter, 35M feeds well into CIA, FBI, and DIA (of the more major / more common agencies). There are also a LOT of contracting options available working for these places indirectly.
Also, if your only goal is a stepping stone to a specific agency, you are actually better off talking to that agency directly and see what they think. Even then, there are no guarantees. At this point, you probably need to have goals and retain adaptability than concrete plans which are too far away to guarantee. Just my advice, because I have seen too many folks realize too late that their hopes and dreams of being a superspy were never going to happen.
If your goal is SPECIFICALLY NSA, you are much better off in the signals world. I cannot say whether or not they use ANY 35M, but if they do it would be an exceptionally low amount.
However if you are just looking for a 3-letter, ANY 3-letter, 35M feeds well into CIA, FBI, and DIA (of the more major / more common agencies). There are also a LOT of contracting options available working for these places indirectly.
Also, if your only goal is a stepping stone to a specific agency, you are actually better off talking to that agency directly and see what they think. Even then, there are no guarantees. At this point, you probably need to have goals and retain adaptability than concrete plans which are too far away to guarantee. Just my advice, because I have seen too many folks realize too late that their hopes and dreams of being a superspy were never going to happen.
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SGT Justin Chiang
No. The 3-letters operate under different authorities and have their own certifying courses; its not a 1-for-1.
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John Marder
SFC Casey O'Mally - I already have applied but I recognize that a bachelors degree is not enough when the vast majority of competition has military experience and TS security clearances. Seeing as I already have a degree, this is the only option I see that can increase my competitiveness.
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