Posted on Feb 4, 2015
Is it appropiate for a prior service member to correct service members on AR 670-1 violations?
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Is it appropriate for any PSMs to correct the violations of AR 670-1 on any currently serving SM? This includes any rank (PVT to O-5). As a PSM who honorably served in the Army, I see many soldiers who violate AR 670-1, And I have corrected most, including SGTs and higher (I am a PV2). Am I wrong for this? And, can we, as PSMs report disrespect after corrections to brigade commanders if corrections are ignored? Thoughts, please.
Posted in these groups: 
Army Regulations
Army Regulations
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 77
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My Brother in Arms and Fellow Veteran. As a Marine, we are the worst for this. Most of us even question a persons right to wear the word Marine with a graphic of the covet EGA (Eagle Globe and Anchor)
Some times that does seem a little far but as correcting a SM of any branch, I think it is still our obligation to do so because I really dont think that our Oath ever expires. Its the required active duty that does
Cpl Britt
USMC eas
Some times that does seem a little far but as correcting a SM of any branch, I think it is still our obligation to do so because I really dont think that our Oath ever expires. Its the required active duty that does
Cpl Britt
USMC eas
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Anyone with any service history has an obligation to right what is wrong. And, in the Army, a private is allowed to correct a Col as long as they do so respectfully. It is a matter of upholding the standard before the individual. And if you are disrespected, especially being prior service, get their name, rank, and command, and I am sure it won't be tolerated.
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Still Serving! Just do it properly. You can't barrage a Soldier with your correction in a veteran status and expect them to respond appropriately. You can however advise and hope they have enough respect for you and your attention to them to fix the discrepancy.
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I would have to say your are in the right, it is our job to make sure our battle buddy's are squared away at all times regardless of rank. Because we are so scrutinized under the public eye, we need to make sure we look professional at all times.
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But what if the correction is in error based on either changes to rules and regulations or that the PSM is just wrong?
In our local PX Food Court one afternoon where I was joining my family for a duty day lunch (I was in ACUs), I had a much older gentleman approach me and told me that I was wrong for chewing gum in uniform, and that I should know better! (I have posted this before, so will not go into much more about opinions of gum chewing.)
Of course, there is no regulation or rule about not chewing gum (of course, looking bad, etc. still applies) so what do you do?
I thanked him for his service (I assumed he was a Retiree), then moved about my lunch with my family. (Of course I asked my CSM as soon as I could to make sure I wasn't missing something.)
In our local PX Food Court one afternoon where I was joining my family for a duty day lunch (I was in ACUs), I had a much older gentleman approach me and told me that I was wrong for chewing gum in uniform, and that I should know better! (I have posted this before, so will not go into much more about opinions of gum chewing.)
Of course, there is no regulation or rule about not chewing gum (of course, looking bad, etc. still applies) so what do you do?
I thanked him for his service (I assumed he was a Retiree), then moved about my lunch with my family. (Of course I asked my CSM as soon as I could to make sure I wasn't missing something.)
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
When I served, I thought I heard something about the "chewing gum" situation. But, you are right. unless the PSM is up to date with current regs, they should but out. I completely agree sir.
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Personally, I would find it highly inappropriate for someone who isn’t currently serving (AC/RC/NG) to correct me on uniform deficiencies of any kind. Can you imagine how galling it would be for some guy with a huge beard and shoulder length hair try to correct you on your uniform?
Also, regulations change all the time. What used to be the regulation might no longer be the case and you may end up correcting something which doesn’t need to be corrected.
Also, regulations change all the time. What used to be the regulation might no longer be the case and you may end up correcting something which doesn’t need to be corrected.
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SSgt Matthew Lee
CPT Shaohong Lu, I am retired and work on a range. We work with enlisted and officers here and I have made corrections to officers and enlisted. Most the officers because the Velcro rank on their flac was turned sideways. Usually done by one of their own to mess with them but they don't catch it all the time. Would you want me to continue to let you look all jacked up in front of you troops or fix you discreetly?
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MAJ (Join to see)
Gentlemen, obviously we have a difference of philosophy which cannot be bridged by a few posts on an online forum. The original topic starter wanted an opinion and I gave him mine. That being said, there's no need to bash me and tell me to 'grow up' on how I view this topic. If we ever get a chance to serve together in the force, I believe you would be surprised at how open and appreciative I am of junior enlisted military members correcting me on my deficiencies. Jumping to the conclusion that I am one of those 'elitist' Officers who doesn't listen to anyone is not appreciated.
While all of us will one day be a 'former Marine' or 'former Soldier', there is a huge difference between those who wear the uniform now and those who are no longer subject to the UCMJ and service regulations. For instance, the 670-1 which the original topic starter mentioned changed no less than 3 times within the last 3 years. If you left the service a few years ago, you would be taken aback at the changes (i.e. female hair regulations, using umbrellas, tattoo rules etc.). While I would greatly appreciate someone like SSgt Lee correcting an obvious mishap on my part such as a prank or something else that is obvious, things that really bother current Service Members about 670-1 (tattoos & hair standards) change so frequently that leaders must continuously read up on the changes to make sure we are making accurate corrections. Unless the retiree has continuously researched regulations, how can he or she possibly know that the correction they are making is valid?
While all of us will one day be a 'former Marine' or 'former Soldier', there is a huge difference between those who wear the uniform now and those who are no longer subject to the UCMJ and service regulations. For instance, the 670-1 which the original topic starter mentioned changed no less than 3 times within the last 3 years. If you left the service a few years ago, you would be taken aback at the changes (i.e. female hair regulations, using umbrellas, tattoo rules etc.). While I would greatly appreciate someone like SSgt Lee correcting an obvious mishap on my part such as a prank or something else that is obvious, things that really bother current Service Members about 670-1 (tattoos & hair standards) change so frequently that leaders must continuously read up on the changes to make sure we are making accurate corrections. Unless the retiree has continuously researched regulations, how can he or she possibly know that the correction they are making is valid?
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LTC (Join to see)
I'd enjoy being tactfully corrected by "some guy with a huge beard and shoulder length hair" so we could discuss the rules and regulations he had while in, the ones now, and any differences between the two, especially over the past couple of years.
Heck, we may end up with a cold beverage of choice, laughing at some of the absurdity we both experienced!
Heck, we may end up with a cold beverage of choice, laughing at some of the absurdity we both experienced!
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I wouldn’t. When you’re out, you’re out. I think in cases of prior service making corrections it those that just can’t let go of the military.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see), with suspected stolen valor I would approach like I'm making friendly conversation and trip them up with simple questions. Then it's on.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
Hey SGT (Join to see), How can you see any point of view from a PSM or retired SM if you yourself are not one? Not trying to start an argument, so please don't take it the wrong way. I look forward to your valued feedback.
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SGT (Join to see)
Being in the National Guard many people assume that I was just active duty now working in the civilian world, although I correct them of course. So were I to approach an active duty SM and correct them, they would likely assume I am prior service. Also, not being active, I would not fear the potential wrath of someone simply because they outranked me because they would not know my CoC and likely wouldn't know unless I informed them. Plus my unit is fairly close and supportive, so I know I would not get any flak for making such a correction, but it is because of the fact I am not active duty that I understand that point of view. Plus, it's not hard to put one's self in another's shoes for this situation. All I have to do is ask what I'd do once my enlistment is out. I'd make a suggestion politely but not expect them to head my advice just because I say something. If they ignore me, fine, I'll let it go. I wouldn't try to say well according to AR 670-1 you are wearing this improperly and try to chew them out on it. At some point someone else would notice like I did and then they will wish they make the correction. But you must maintain respect and courtesy.
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